JRE MMA Show #172 with Gable Steveson

[00:01] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. [00:13] What's happening? Pleasure to meet you, man. How are you? Great. I'm great. [00:16] When you got a name like Gable and you're named after Dan Gable and you go on to win an Olympic gold medal in wrestling. That's kind of prophetic. My mom, when I was young, she was trying to find names for me and she liked Kale Sanderson. [00:30] because Kay was a guy at the time, but she was at a tournament in Iowa with my older brother. And she kept hearing Gable, Gable, Gable. And it was Dan Gable at the time. [00:38] And, you know, Dan Gable is a huge figure in the Midwest for wrestling. And so she was like, why don't I name you Gable Dan? Dan. [00:44] And the rest was history, which is really crazy. Because his whole timeline is my timeline, which is fantastic. Except the MMA part. That too. Yeah. Which I wish he would have done. He would have been amazing. I think he would have been amazing. But it wasn't around. Yeah. [00:57] I mean, when he was wrestling. Bare knuckle, maybe. I don't know, do it on the street or something. He could have found a way. It's kind of fucked that there's no real professional outlet for actual wrestling. [01:10] It is fucked. [01:11] And wrestling needs a real way to go out there and be something big. And I think they have a really good one now with RAF, if you haven't heard about it. Yes, I have. It's the American Freestyle. Yes. [01:21] They're trying, and I think they're trying really well, and I think it's going to come to a point where how do you make matchups continue? Because wrestling gets to the point where – and fighting in a lot of the sports, you can get to the point where maybe you draft a guy. In fighting, there's a next big thing. There's a next guy out there that you can kind of create in.

[01:38] With wrestling, they're trying to create an atmosphere of how can you create that person. And I like it. And I think it might work. And hopefully it keeps going the way it needs to go. It would be interesting if it were the problem is MMA is so huge now and people kind of associate [01:52] wrestling with either MMA or pro wrestling now. Those are the two things that they think of. [01:58] I think it's one of those things like soccer where soccer should be huge in America – [02:04] It's huge all over the world. Right. It's a very exciting sport. [02:07] But nope. You know what's crazy? How popular soccer players are. [02:13] And I feel like in America, we have so many sports that we can't hit that market for soccer. And I think that might be the biggest case why. Because if you go overseas... [02:22] Ronaldo's paid $500 million, and if he scores a goal, he gets a million dollars a goal or something. So he's out here doing bicycle kicks. [02:31] We have so many professional sports that LeBron James is our biggest player. [02:35] athlete [02:36] But even then, I think it's at a point where some people see LeBron and, you know, [02:39] It's not like the crazy wow factors. If you saw a soccer player in Italy or Spain, it'll be like, man, it's him. Right. Well, they have less sports though, right? [02:48] I think so. Italy. I think Italy got like basketball, soccer. Well, they're not really known for basketball, though. Soccer's big. Boxing. There's a lot of boxers come out of Italy. But other than that, Rome. [03:00] Yeah. [03:02] They got a couple of fighters. [03:05] But... [03:05] Other than that, I think we're kind of at a halt with creating that big guy for America. Well, it's just strange to me because wrestling itself is such an exciting sport.

[03:19] It really is very exciting to watch, and everybody understands it. It's not complicated. I really think everyone understands it to a certain extent. But they can learn the points and all the other stuff. Have you wrestled? Yeah, wrestled in high school. How did you do it? Just one year. I was doing Taekwondo at the same time. Because I was doing Taekwondo, and I couldn't do both of them at the same time. [03:40] And I was pretty good at Taekwondo. You know what's crazy? I think since you've done Taekwondo, maybe I should try. [03:45] If you are such an athlete, you'd probably be awesome at it. I might be able to pull it off. I don't know if I can get to your level. [03:51] Well, you would figure it out, man. You'd figure it out. Are you flexible? [03:56] It depends how and what are we doing. Well, you would get flexible. The thing is, like, you'd figure out how to get flexible. The flexibility thing drives me nuts because I've tried to show stuff to guys before. MMA fighters. And they're like, oh, I'm not flexible. I'm like... [04:11] What does that mean? What does that mean? This is not like you're not tall. Okay. Like you can get flexible. Okay. Like you just stretch. Okay. We can rewind now and I can say I am flexible. I am flexible. Well, you certainly could get flexible. You can. Anyone can get flexible. But it's not, can you get flexible? Do you want to get flexible? That's a good question. Do you want to do something? [04:31] This is a good question. It's a lot of work to get flexible. And would it compromise anything? Some people say it compromises some stability. [04:38] You know, like to have like completely over flexible hips and flexible joints that it could possibly compromise some stability that maybe. But I mean, Yoho Romero is pretty fucking flexible. And he's explosive. Crazy. Super explosive. Bro, how about that match with Pat Downey? He went out there and made Pat Downey look like a beginner wrestler. And it's crazy because Pat Downey is really good. Really good.

[05:00] Yo, it was 48. I know. 48 shooting blast doubles like he's back in 04 Olympics. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't. He's a real freak, man. [05:11] I mean, he's 48 allegedly. We don't even really know how old he is because he's from Cuba. How old do you think he is for real? Oh, I don't know. Man, 35 at this point? I mean, he's obviously at least 48. [05:25] But it's just crazy. But you know what the best part about it is? When guys get older and they kind of get a little bigger – [05:32] They don't look good in a singlet. And this is crazy to say, but Yoel looks really solid in that singlet. Oh, bro. He looks solid everywhere, man. He's still got a six pack. Still does. And, you know, now he's doing dirty boxing and he's still fighting MMA. He's just... [05:47] He's a freak. I mean, and we really didn't even get him in MMA until he was past his athletic prime. Yes. I mean, he really started fighting in the UFC. How old was he when he first fought in the UFC? I want to say he's like 35. I don't know that, but it seemed really late because when he was going through Olympics, he was... [06:03] sound in every position and like you said i mean in a couple interviews back if he would have started that early just imagine oh my god just imagine yeah the it's but that's the thing that you have [06:15] The thing about MMA is... [06:18] The real freak athletes, they go to football, they go to basketball, they go where all the money is, and they go where all the traditional sports – [06:25] avenues are and it's just not there's not a lot of freak athletes that wind up making their way to MMA and when they do they really shine you know and when I first started seeing you competing you know first obviously in wrestling and you know if you can win a gold medal in the Olympics in wrestling I mean that you have to have everything you have to have everything you have to be a freak athlete you have to be unbelievably dedicated discipline nobody gets there easy no that is not a you know like oh he's just gifted it doesn't it doesn't exist you gotta gotta you gotta have

[06:55] There's going to be a lot of tools. Yeah. A lot of tools. A lot of tools and a lot of fortitude. The thing about wrestling that I've always said is like not only is it the best base for MMA because if a guy can dictate where the fight takes place, that is the most important aspect of fighting. And you can learn everything else. But it's also – it's like the mental toughness that wrestlers have, the ability to grind out those practices, the conditioning that's involved in wrestling. It's above and beyond I think all other sports. Yeah. I think it's a next level thing. [07:25] Right now, the guys that are dominating and winning are kind of putting that wrestling base first, but making it – [07:31] MMA wrestling. I feel like when a lot of guys, a lot of D1 wrestlers come to MMA, they kind of don't make the switch of how to take the right shot and how to finish the right shot and how to use your feet to trip their feet out on a cage. And if you get stuck with the... [07:43] stuck in a guillotine, how do you move from that spot? And I think you see the guys that are doing it best, the Islam, the Hamzats are really going out there and attacking and making sure that people can understand that, hey, you got to fear this. [07:55] And then next, I'm going to come with the hands. And so I think that's the biggest thing that we're working on now is that I've wrestled my whole life. And I've done great things and won the Olympics and multiple national championships. But I think the main thing is going out there and understanding that, [08:08] You are that bad, dude? [08:10] But when you show them hands, now you have to respect both. And I think that's where a lot of this is going to come into play when I finally get to that point of reaching that competition. This episode is brought to you by Traeger Grills. If you enjoy food, and I mean really good food, Traeger is a game changer. This isn't just a grill.

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[10:11] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. [10:25] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. [10:55] best friends something every dog owner wants the answer to that is [11:00] is yes, obviously. So try the farmer's dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. [11:09] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. [11:17] Now, how long have you been striking for? I've been going into a little... So I'm from Minnesota, Apple Valley. I'm actually from Portage, Indiana. I moved to Apple Valley, Minnesota when I was 11 years old. And in college, I met a guy named Billy Simon. He's from Pryor Lake. He fought nothing too big, just on a regional scene in Minnesota. He has a house on Pryor Lake, and he has a place in his basement that is built out for MMA and stuff like that. When I was maybe 21 years old, I started hitting the pads. And mind you,

[11:45] Stiff as a board. Don't really know what I'm doing. But he's kind of started and guided me along the way. And how old are you now? I'm 25. So just four years. Just four years. But I think... [11:54] Really, really striking... [11:56] Seven months. [11:57] Like really after it. So crazy, really time consuming. Hey, this is what I want to do. [12:07] I'm not going to wrestle. I'm doing MMA. [12:09] I would say seven months. [12:11] But when you watch your dirty boxing match, I would have never believed that. Except I know what an athlete you are. It's just – it's so crazy how someone who really knows how to use their body can learn other things. Well, I think the main thing also is I'm all ears. You know, you can't have – you can't go out there and think that you can do something without putting that time and effort in, like we talked about with the Olympics or like you talked about. But I think the main thing is if I can go out there and be all ears – [12:39] and soak up game from the people that are trying to show me the way, I think I can do a lot of great things. And that's all I do. I'm all ears. I want to show up twice a day. I want to do the best thing that I can. If I got to show up three times a day and I feel like it, [12:49] I'm going to go do it because it's also to be an elite athlete like yourself. You have to be coachable. You have to really like the guys who like already know things like I'm going to do it my way. Like they didn't never get elite. It doesn't work. No. And I think you've got to put that guard down. [13:05] You got to trust somebody. And if you don't trust anybody and man, I think I can do it alone. I think I can kind of wing it. I think I can maybe not practice today. You got to trust somebody and you got to put your heart into somebody. And I feel like I have a good group of people around me to kind of put that heart into. And they're kind of they're not even they're kind of they're leading me in the right direction. And I'm man, I'm grateful.

[13:35] Bills yeah yeah how long you play it for [13:38] I never played football in my life. [13:39] Never played. No, that was the first time I played football. I promise. That's crazy. First time you played football was professional. It was in the NFL. My mom was always scared. [13:50] The high school coach at Apple Valley High School in Minnesota were like, "Hey, come play football." They were trying to call my mom and dad and I'm like, [13:56] You're not going to convince her. She is scared to death of football. But the whole time, I'm wrestling. [14:01] So where do we bridge this gap at? Right, right. And I just get done with WWE. [14:08] And I go out there and I'm chilling. I get a call saying, hey, you want to try out for the Bills? And I tell Sean McDermott and Brandon Bean, I said, hey, don't expect much. [14:15] But I can put on shoes. [14:17] But I've never had football cleats on. I never had pads on. [14:20] I don't even know how to put the tights on. [14:22] Anything. And I went out there and I sprinted my ass off, though. And I tried out. I was sprinting down and back and forth. I said, hey, if I don't know any technique for D-line, you're going to see effort. [14:32] And McDermott saw effort, and that's all he needed to see, and he gave me a chance. [14:35] What was that like, like jumping into a completely new sport? [14:40] Hard. [14:41] Because it's not just football. How old were you when you did that? [14:45] 20, I just turned 24. Wow. I just turned 24. Um, it's, [14:49] Ooh! [14:51] I know you see it. You see that stance? That's the beginner stance. That's the beginner stance. But I came out there, no gloves, just winging it. And I told them, just give me a good chance. But football is not just football. It's the playbook. [15:04] And the playbook is crazy because I went from, hey, go out there and wrestle someone one-on-one to...

[15:09] See if the guard is light on his feet or see if he's leaning forward. See if the center is going to silent count maybe or see if the guard taps the center to snap the ball. [15:17] There's a lot of different things that you got to know. [15:19] And I'm out there with this big-ass helmet on. I've never put a helmet on, Joe. So I'm out there with this big-ass helmet on. My head's, like, down and I can't look up. And I don't know what I'm doing. [15:29] But... [15:29] I knew if I gave effort that someone would give me a chance. And I went out there in my first game. I feel like I think I had a tackle – [15:36] QB rush and I was kind of unheard of at the time because I've never played ball before but um it was crazy once in a lifetime experience most definitely and when you got cut did you think about trying somewhere else did you think about doing it more yeah once I got cut from Buffalo I was the last one to get cut from the from the room I remember going in to see being in um in McDermott and I and they were going to do practice squad and [15:59] But I knew they were going to do practice squats. So I was like, yo, just send me home. I'll figure it out. I'll try again. So my plan was to go back to college and wrestle already. [16:07] But I sat around for maybe a month. [16:09] Baltimore Ravens called me and Baltimore was like, hey, you want to come to a tryout? [16:13] I said, okay. [16:14] You know, I never played football before. Just to let you know, like if it's a little shaky, I went out there and I dominated the tryout. And I had like 10 minutes of work. But it was a great 10 minutes. [16:24] And they're like, okay, we're going to take your physicals. [16:26] You're going to be here and stay. [16:28] Their injury report comes back, and the injury report says they need a DN and a linebacker. [16:35] So you've got to compensate for the spot because you need someone to play next week. And I probably needed like six weeks on practice squad to play.

[16:41] And so I get sent home. They say, give me a week. [16:44] We'll bring you back. [16:45] A week comes, don't bring me back. [16:47] And so I'm like, okay, I see the writing on the wall. Let me move on. I sit for a little bit. Indianapolis Colts call. [16:53] They just got ran over by a team. They said, we need a run stopper. So I go out there, do this trial. I think it went well. They said, we're not taking anybody today. And then from there, I was like, you know, maybe this is not it. And so I went back to wrestle. [17:07] And did you ever think about MMA at that time? Was it in the back of your head? [17:12] MMA was in the back of my head since the Olympics. [17:15] But I wanted to make sure that if I was going to go to MMA, that – [17:19] Let me try things first before... [17:22] Going all in on something that I need to go all in on and I did my tryouts I did my things and now I want to go in all in on something that that is finally here And when your mom was scared of you doing wrestling, how did she feel about you doing mma? Oh, you know, she shouldn't shit not Oh my god, she can't even watch she'd even watch me wrestle and so now I'm like mom I got a dude about to punch me in the face. Maybe if he can get to me um [17:48] Are you sure you want to come and watch? And she's like, yeah, I'll come watch it. She comes, has a good time and has her drinks. And when I step out, I'm like, where were you? Oh, I was in the back. [17:56] So you ain't even see me fight?

[18:00] I'm like, why you even come then? So she, out of the three fights I've had, she's... [18:06] sat in the back and she'd be like, [18:08] the john will go and get her and and be like gable's done and she's like oh what happened and john be like good it's all day so does she get nervous oh my god she's sweating she's nervous but i'm just like um i kind of i'll give her that look of like if it's if this is one of them ones i'm gonna tell you um but i haven't given her those looks yet so she'll know [18:29] So when you make this – so you decide football is not going to happen, WWE is not going to happen. You did like one televised match with WWE, right? I did, yes. Yeah. What was that like? Honestly, I had a great – from me being real and honest, I had a great experience. I have no – nothing wrong with anybody there. TKO was great. Triple H, Paul Levesque was great. Stephanie, Vince, everybody was great. I just had a competitive drive that I needed to get out. Right. [18:59] And I was trying to bridge both in... [19:03] I wasn't giving my 100% to the business. And if I'm not going to give 100% to the business, then you might as well X me out. Yeah. Because it's already over with. So I just... [19:11] That's practically how it happened. Yeah, no slight on pro wrestling, but it's just like if you really want to compete, compete. [19:18] You've got to get it all out. Yeah. And so I would love to go back in the future. I would love to do a sport and go out there and dominate. And then, hey. Maybe after the UFC heavyweight champ. For sure. Maybe after a couple times. And so I would love to go. And if it meant well, then I would do it again, most definitely, because I have no hard feelings to them.

[19:36] Um, and, and that's how it goes. So when you make the decision that you're going to go into MMA, what is that like? Like what, what are the steps that you take? I got done with NCAAs and I said, I flew down to Miami. Um, I met with, um, John and a couple other people and I said, Hey, I want to fight. Um, and you know, you know, John had me in his camp. So we're talking about John Jones. And did you, did you know John before this? I knew John because I knew John from Instagram. [20:02] John like wrestling. So I knew John from IG. He sent me a DM. He sent me his number. And if you know John, he don't answer the phone worth anything. And it's crazy. But he sent me his number. He said, call me. So I called him. And this was before he got hurt for the first Stipe fight. [20:16] He was like, "I want you to come practice with us. I want a wrestling partner." [20:19] I left him and played football. The next year comes... No, I'm sorry. I don't even know where I was at at the time. [20:27] We go in [20:28] He's like... [20:29] I want you to come back for the second camp. [20:31] He's going through it. Me and John hit it off like that. [20:34] Wow, we hit it off and so when you guys started training together in camp is that when it really sunk in your head when you like this is what I want to do. Yeah, I [20:43] He really he really I needed somebody to kind of engrave it in me. [20:47] With wrestling, I had my father, I had the University of Minnesota, I had a lot of good people around me kind of like say, "Hey, this is how we're going to do it, this is where you need to go, and this is how it's going to happen." And when I saw John, I saw that drive of like, [20:59] damn, you know, this guy's winning and, and [21:02] people get close, but they can't get past him. And why is that? So I really sat back and like watched his mental and like,

[21:09] how he went about a lot of things, how he talked to people, how he greeted people. [21:13] how he walked, how he punched, maybe how he looked when he was in the pocket, when he needed to get out, when he rested his hands. [21:20] And I saw everything. And I was like, wow, like... [21:22] man, this guy's a superstar, super, superstar. And we all know that. And people know that for a long time now, but I really saw him and I was like, [21:30] Damn, I want to be that. And that's what flipped my switch right there. What an amazing opportunity. You know, you haven't done any MMA and you get to go in there and train with the GOAT. [21:40] It's crazy. This one, man. [21:42] you know, [21:43] It's hard to explain. I tell people. People ask me all the time, like, what was it like seeing John for the first time? Because I'm 25, so when John was like, [21:51] Super peak. I was like 12, 13 years old. And I'm looking at this guy beat Gus of San Reyes and Tiago Santos and stuff like that. [22:00] It's... [22:02] Different. [22:03] you see a different side of people. And when I saw John, I was like, wow, like I've seen you for my whole life and I get to see you in person. Like how cool is that? [22:09] Okay, if your New Year's resolution was change everything and be a new person, good luck. So instead of pretending you're going to meal prep kale forever or do morning cold plunges, here's one actually realistic thing, AG1. [22:24] AG-1 is a daily health drink that supports your energy, gut health, immune health, and helps fill common nutrient gaps. Just one scoop in cold water each morning and you're off. It's got over 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food ingredients in there. So instead of guessing whether you need a probiotic or a prebiotic or sorting through 10 different bottles of pills and powders, you can just do one scoop and get on with your day. It's great because it feels like the grown-up move, but for once, it's actually really easy.

[22:54] like 30 seconds and you'll notice the steadiness that sets you up for the day not wired not crashing just functional human being energy i partnered with ag1 for years and if you want to give it a try head to drink ag1.com slash joe rogan and for a limited time you'll get a free ag1 duffel bag and free ag1 welcome kit with your first ag1 subscription order [23:19] Only while supplies last. That's drinkag1.com slash Joe Rogan or visit the link in the description to get started. And for people that don't even know, the close fights that John had, they were really only close because John wasn't training. That's really all it is. That's true. 100%. John was partying and he was what I would call playing with his food. You know? Yeah. He didn't – like the Gustafson fight is a perfect example. Didn't train at all for the Gustafson fight. [23:49] Jackson. He was like, I swear to God, he barely showed up. I'm like, that is so crazy. And then he gutted it out in the last rounds. That's what's crazy. It's a close decision. [23:58] But he wins the fight by gutting it out in the final rounds when he's done relatively no strength and conditioning. Nothing. So crazy. It's fantastic to see. [24:09] really gets motivated for the second fight was Gustafson and just smokes him. Blows him out. Which is what you expect. When John is in prime form, he's the greatest of all time. [24:20] Most definitely. For you to be able to be a young guy who's thinking about MMA and train with the greatest of all time –

[24:29] Now, two-division world champion. It's crazy. Amazing opportunity. And it's amazing because you don't see the guy that's – you see the best of the best right away. We're back. So anyway, where were we? [24:41] John Jones. Yeah. So you're saying you. [24:45] So you were talking about what it's like to first start training with them. So you had no MMA training really before that at all? You had just been doing a little bit of striking with this guy? Joe, I kid you not. I didn't even know really how to defend punches. [25:02] That's crazy. I didn't know how to defend punches. And you probably saw a video of him throwing the knee at me. Because I'm so hard-headed. I'm like, let me shoot on John. But the whole time I forgot he's a national championship wrestler. [25:13] I didn't know how to defend a punch. I didn't know how to defend a kick. I didn't know how to do anything. But I went in there and I said, hey, if you need somebody, it's got to be me. And that's how hungry I was. And I feel like that's how kids should be nowadays about getting that opportunity. Man, just be hungry. [25:25] Because someone's going to respect you. Yeah, for sure. But, I mean... [25:29] Not a whole lot of people get that opportunity. That's a crazy opportunity. It's also like John is an elite wrestler as well. And so like learning how to incorporate elite wrestling into all the other aspects of MMA and to be able to go right into camp with John is just... [25:45] This is amazing. Incredible opportunity. It's super incredible. I'm grateful for it every day. And especially he's still here in my corner to this day. We talked this morning. He's still giving me all the pointers, all the advice, even when we're not even fighting. [25:57] just telling me how I should say things, what I should say, how I need to go about life, how I need to go about...

[26:03] business and meeting people and greeting people. So it's a true opportunity. That's awesome. That's really awesome. So when you were in camp with him, you're going through the camp. Were you planning on MMA then? Or like how does it work? Like what were you thinking? Were you just like the moment you started training with him, is that when it – [26:21] really started the fire in you? [26:23] Yes, I had a little bit of burn for it, but in the back of your mind. Yes, but a little burn. You got to have the heart. You got to have the heart. [26:30] So kind of what was the stamp on it was I went to – [26:34] I went to Madison Square Garden with him. [26:36] And John was just doing John things, you know, just being a superstar. Everybody knew who he was. And I was like, man, you know, I got an Olympic gold medal, you know, like, [26:45] Maybe I should be getting some too. Like, you know, like John showed me the way a little bit. So I'm trying to have him show me the way. He's bringing me to every place, meeting every person, you know, showing me the opportunities that he has. And he looks at me and he was like, [26:57] You can have this too. [26:58] And that was kind of the cherry on the top. [27:01] But... [27:02] We can put another cherry on the top and do a double one when he won the fight. And then I'm holding the belt with him. And, like, I see this guy face to face. And, you know, he's just the most popular man on earth for that day. And it's kind of like, wow. [27:13] You don't get you don't really get to see the backstage moments. You get to see the guy go out there on TV and fight. But I got to see the backstage of everyone taking the pictures with him. The superstars, you know, I'm walking out the next game and I see Queen Latifah and I'm like, damn. [27:27] That's Queen Latifah. And I'm taking a selfie with Queen Latifah. I'm like, yo, can I take can I send this to my mom? And she's like, Yeah, go ahead.

[27:34] And I see Fat Joe talking to him and everybody. And I'm like, wow, like this is what it is to be like a real fighting star. Like and fighting is one on one. [27:43] And people want to watch someone fight. But I think in other sports, like we talked about earlier, there's a full team with helmets on, with jerseys on. But in fighting, people want to meet that badass dude. And they want to meet the champ. [27:55] And that's what I want to be. [27:57] Yeah. So what is what is training with John like? Like, what is the training camp like? [28:04] Like when – you obviously haven't gone into training camp with any other elite fighters, but – [28:09] One of the more interesting things that separates John from everybody else is like John doesn't take no short notice fights. John game plans for everybody. He studies tendencies. He's – his fight IQ, I mean it's – obviously he has everything. He obviously has all the skills. [28:27] Obviously has all the drive and everything else, but the fight IQ is the big one. That's the big one because if you don't have a good driver, who gives a fuck how fast your car is? True. [28:38] It's really the mind behind it that puts it all together. He's sitting in a Ferrari with Ferrari gas. A lot of people sit in a Ferrari with 87 gas and a car don't work. [28:49] So when I got to see those tendencies of him watching people, and he does it to me now where he'll send me videos on Instagram of – [28:56] The top UFC guys be go watch how he steps, you know watch when he throws a punch how he comes back and he doesn't reset this certain way And he's kind of already installing installing those tendencies than me and so now

[29:08] When I was wrestling, I never used to watch people wrestle. [29:11] Like I went out there on a limb and I was just beating guys. [29:13] Even in Olympics, I never watched anyone wrestle. I never watched their film. Really? Never. Never. [29:18] I told coaches, don't show me one video because I don't want to focus on that one thing he did. [29:22] And that was me being hard-headed. Like, if a guy had a great double leg, [29:26] And I'm like, damn, how do I stop this double leg? [29:29] And I'm worried about stopping a double leg instead of doing my offense. [29:33] I never watched anybody. I went to the Olympics and I said, show me, show me the guys I'm wrestling. And I said, let's do it. [29:41] You know, the guys right now are just banging their head against the wall, listening to this. I was like, damn, he did that to me. That's crazy. I said, let's do it. I said, it's me or you as do or die. And, [29:50] This tournament, I'm not dying. You can't beat me in any way possible. And that's when I was at my best when I had that mindset. And he's kind of putting that back into me and I feel really good about it. [29:59] That's amazing. It's amazing. So when he's sending you videos, like, do you have like a, do you save all this shit? Do you have like a folder where you have all these different fighters and different moves? Because you're, you're basically brand new at something. But so like this, let me just tell you what I said. You had a fight, an MMA fight where you hit that dude with a left hook and then took him down while he was out cold. I sent Dana White a text message. I said, everyone's fucked. I did.

[30:29] Speed is crazy. Like that kind of speed and incorporated with elite wrestling is crazy. I'm like, what do you, the heavyweight division is so shallow right now. You got Tom Aspinall, Cyril gone, Jon Jones, if he chooses to fight again, Francis, if some... [30:46] By some miracle, they can work something out and bring him back to the UFC. [30:50] Other than that, there's no one compelling for like a championship caliber fighter. There's basically four or five guys on earth that are in this like championship caliber competition. [31:02] class. And you're already there, which is nuts. And you haven't even fought in the UFC yet. When I watched you move and I watched you fight, I was like, okay, how do you stop that? [31:16] Who's got the skills to be able to stop that? And in my mind, there's only a few guys where it's going to be a problem. There's like the Francis Ngannos, the Cyril Gans, and the Tom Aspinall. That's it. There's like a few guys. [31:32] The only problem is going to be you getting fights. [31:35] Thank you. [31:36] Like that kind of speed is just bananas for a 250-pound man, you know? And when you have that and you're 25 years old, it's like this is a – [31:46] It is a very rare thing that you see in MMA, and it's kind of crazy because the heavyweight division is, of course, the most prestigious division in the world. The heavyweight champion of the UFC is the baddest motherfucker on the planet. And, you know, right now, it's kind of –

[32:05] toss-up right because Cyril gone had this fight with Aspinall John is kind of semi-retired or whatever he decides to do it's you know it's kind of up in the air he'll probably have one more fight right [32:16] I want him to. I think he's got the juice in him. [32:19] The White House. He would love the White House. He's told me many times he wants to be main event on the White House and he wants me to be... [32:25] a couple slots behind him and kind of have us both win. And that's, that's his last leg right there. I would love, I would love for him to do one more. If he really wanted to in his heart, he should, but if he doesn't, [32:36] John's not going to do it. They should do Alex Pereira and him at the White House. [32:40] I told people. I said, Alex Pereira would be a great matchup for Tom. A heavyweight version of the BMF belt. You know what I'm saying? It'll be perfect. There's nothing else to it besides two guys going out there. It's Alex Pereira, the baddest light heavyweight. And that's Jon Jones' baddest heavyweight right now. Yeah. And regardless if someone else has the belt, [32:56] John Jones doesn't have that. It's still the baddest heavyweight out there. It doesn't. The belt doesn't mean jack shit when it's John Jones. It doesn't mean jack shit. It doesn't. It's, you know, there's so many fighters could do that. They could just step away from the belts, abandon the belts, and then come back. It's really just about the fighter. Everybody knows who John is. Everybody knows what John does. [33:14] It's like people will pay to – you don't need a belt. A belt doesn't mean anything. Yo, this is a crazy story. I came – I had a French Bulldog that passed away. So I like to go out there and I adopt French Bulldogs. [33:25] And I kind of give them a better home and I either ship them to a new home or I keep them. And so at the time I had a baby French Bulldog. He passed away. And I told John, I was like, yo, my dog died. I got to go home. He let me go home.

[33:35] I came back. [33:36] And I came back on a Tuesday. I didn't see John until Thursday. And mind you, this is a week before he's going to go out there for Stipe. He's sick. [33:43] Like super sick. [33:44] And I watched this guy do five rounds on a Thursday. [33:47] And they shark baited him, five new people, and he's dead tired. And this is when I knew he was unstoppable. He went out there and nobody could touch him. [33:55] And I'm telling you, high class PFL fighters, ex-UFC fighters, ex-Glory kickboxers were going in there after him. And he was just mopping them. [34:03] And I was like, damn. [34:05] This dude is beyond next level. And that was like, you know, you got to see greatness. And I see it at the fight. But you also got to see it when how does this guy be great before the fight? [34:15] And I saw that and I was like, God damn. [34:17] um, [34:19] I said, excuse me, John, um... [34:21] Thank you. [34:21] You think I can go in there with you? [34:23] And he was like, no. [34:24] And I was like, why do you think so? He was like, you don't know how to defend. [34:27] And it was kind of a funny joke because a guy, a partner got hurt and I was like, [34:31] I raised my hand. I told Greg Jackson. I said, Greg, let me in there. And Greg was like, [34:36] Not today, Gabe. And this is when I didn't know how to defend or anything. He was like, Gabe, not today. And I was like, man, why? You know, I can go in there and take him down. And he was like, this is different. [34:44] And when I saw that, that was like... [34:47] the epitome of like super greatness in my eyes because i like hard workers i like guys that beat on guys i don't like guys that go out there and and and do the little extras that they to look cool i mean just go out there and dominate and let's go home [35:01] And I saw that and I was like, yeah, it's over with for Stipe. It's going to be a long night. Well, unfortunately, they met when Stipe had already had a lot of miles on the clock. A lot, a lot of miles. And John was still elite.

[35:11] It's crazy that John essentially developed a spinning back kick, a real spinning back kick when he's 36 years old. Crazy. It's so nuts. Because, I mean, he tried it earlier in his career, but it was like... [35:21] He would spin instead of go straight. You know what I mean? But when he hit steep A, it was perfect. It was perfect. That picture, we showed a video of it and then freeze froze the heel. It was like boom. It was halfway into his rib cage. It was crazy. I wouldn't have got up either. [35:39] Well, very few people would. Very few human beings can talk. That kick is so powerful. And when it comes from a big guy like John with those long-ass legs and all that leverage with perfect technique and it goes right into the sweet spot like that, like, good luck. But it's such a brilliant – it's such brilliant thinking on his side because he's like, okay, I have to fight heavyweights and I need something that can take them out with one shot. Like, what is that? Well, it's the most powerful kick, which is the spinning back kick. [36:09] Constantly. Constantly. You know, which is just – [36:11] Very few people have the mindset to be able to do it. Very few guys develop new skills late in life. [36:19] Late in their career, they start incorporating new skills like that. [36:23] I think that's a thing where he's always all ears, too. And that's kind of what he's putting into me also. I watched him do the spinning back kick the night before at midnight when we were practicing in the hotel lobby. [36:34] So he was just planning on that. He was planning on it. The showstopper. He told me he wanted to take Stipe down. [36:40] And then all of a sudden he does a spinning back kick. And I was like, you sly motherfucker.

[36:47] Did he bring in a Taekwondo coach? How did he develop that technique so clearly? He's got a – there's a kickboxing Taekwondo coach named Alex. He's got a long last name because I think he married a Thai lady. So I think he changed his last name. Oh, okay. But he's from New Mexico. He works out at Jackson. He's got a lot of tattoos on him. [37:04] And nobody – if you saw him, you would never know. [37:08] The dude can kick hard as shit. [37:10] And it's crazy. And so he worked with John on that? Yes. Yeah. The only other guy that I would say developed a crazy new technique late in his career was Vitor. When Vitor was like 35 or 36, he developed a wheel kick. It was crazy out of nowhere when he fought Luke Rockhold. All of a sudden he's throwing wheel kicks. Like Vitor never – [37:30] Crazy. VTour never threw wheel kicks. Crazy. But I think it's honestly got to be cool from because you sit right next to the cage. So it's got to be cool to see people grow up through their career. And then all of a sudden at the end, you see a guy does a spinning wheel kick or a guy does a spinning back kick. And you're like, damn, where'd that come from? And I feel like does it give you a high to kind of see a person grow through a new stage of seeing a new move from them? I just love excellence. That's what I love. [37:58] I love when someone... [38:01] shines when they just figure a way to eclipse everyone else when they figure a way to when they just like the pure yon marab wabish willie fight when you see a guy like pure yon who loses the first fight to marab and comes back and dominates in the second fight like i love that shit i love it i love watching someone who

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[40:08] it it's it's fast it's cool too because you see peter yan is the new like blueprint for [40:14] Guys that are coaching kids to do moves. [40:17] I mean, he went out there and threw a fake hook and liver kicked Marab. Mm-hmm. [40:21] And then he goes out there and hits a Soto Gallery and chips guys. I mean – [40:26] What other... [40:27] Film tape blueprint can you use from someone else? I mean he's done everything in all of his fights. His flow state is amazing. His flow state is incredible and he's so good at mixing up trips along with like inside fighting. His stand up is so good. He's so hard to hit clean too. I think the only guy who really hit him clean was Sugar Sean. [40:48] Sean hit him with a knee, like a really good knee, timed it perfectly in their fight and dropped him. But other than that, he very rarely gets hit. And when you do hit him, you're hitting him and he's kind of rolling with it. You know, he keeps that super high guard. He does the high, yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, he keeps his hands straight in front of you. He's something special, man. And, you know, that dude's still only 32 years old. He's only 32? Yeah. Ooh. I know. [41:14] It's crazy. What do you think if he doesn't lose it? 32 or 34. [41:17] How old is Piotr Jan? He's either 32 or 34. But, you know, we've seen him in – I think he's 32. [41:24] Me too. Yeah. I mean, we've seen him in the UFC since he was like in his mid-20s. Yeah. [41:30] If he doesn't lose to Merab that first time... [41:32] Where do you think his path goes? It's a good question. You know, I mean, because he did lose to other guys as well. He lost to Sean, and he lost to... The Al Jermaine fight was fucked. The first fight was fucked. But the second fight, Al Jermaine dominated him. But I think he probably...

[41:48] He overestimated himself in the second Al Jermaine fight. It doesn't seem like he was just prepared. And the thing about Al Jermaine is like his wrestling is very good and his back control is the fucking best in the business. When Al Jermaine gets your back, you're in deep shit. He's so good at back control. He's so good at rear naked chokes. And, you know, Al Jermaine just really struggled to make that 135. It's got to be hard. Oh, yeah. [42:14] But if he got it right, and he got it right in that second fight, you know, and he just... [42:18] He just did what he does at his best. It was one of his finest performances. So he lost that fight. But it didn't mean that he was done. It just mean like he realized like, okay, he had to have a camp like he had for Merabh. [42:30] In order to beat Al Jermaine. Yes. You know, and I just don't think everybody's willing to go to that kind of camp every day. [42:37] every fight. Mirai went through four? [42:39] Yeah, I think so. Four in a year. Yeah. Do you do for blueprint? How do you like that? [42:44] Because I know guys kind of take the two-fight-a-year approach, maybe three if you're doing well. I think that's more sustainable. Alex Pereira did the same thing. Like he's fought a lot of fights, and he's fought fights short notice. You've got to admire that mindset of a guy who's like, I don't give a fuck. Let's fight. But Alex has fought with broken toes. He's done everything. He fought with a norovirus, and he had a fucked-up hand the first time he fought on Goliath. [43:11] But then, you know, same thing. Like, he comes in for the second fight with Ancalaya fully healthy and just smokes him. Smokes him in the first round. If you –

[43:18] What do you think about if you gave Alex Pereira like a solid, great wrestler, like an Islam of... [43:24] Light heavyweight heavyweight. How do you think that he does? It'll be a problem. Yeah, I mean, I think [43:28] Less of a problem certainly now than early in his career. Like if you see his first fight in the UFC with Michaelaitis, he gets taken down in the first round. That's not going to happen now. And if it does, he gets up. It's different. But it gets up against who? Does he get up against a guy like you? There's different levels. You really saw that with Jack Della Maddalena in Islam, right? There's levels. And when you've got a guy that's at Islam's level – [43:56] that's just a super elite grappler, unless he faced that before, you don't know what to prepare yourself for. I tell people all the time. That's the thing with Piotr Jan, he had been in there with Marab for the first fight, and so he knew what to expect, and he'd seen all those crazy fights, he saw the fight with Sanhagen, he saw the fight where this was a rematch with Sugasham, where he submitted him, he's like, okay, this guy's a fucking monster. [44:21] He's a monster now. You've got to prepare for a monster. And he was ready. But unless you've experienced that before – [44:28] There's really no one like that in the light heavyweight division, unfortunately. There's not some super elite grappler in the light heavyweight division. And I think that's one of the reasons why Hamzat is thinking about going up to light heavyweight. And I think he should. I'm a big fan of Hamzat. I love his style. I love his intensity. His intensity is the best thing ever. Oh, he's an animal. It's the best thing ever to watch. Because when I was wrestling, I liked to go out there and just put the hammer down to dominate. And he's got it. He's got that touch. Oh, yeah. He's an animal.

[44:55] That animal part of him almost killed him because he refused to stop training when he had COVID. When he had COVID, he was just showing up at the gym and putting in two and a half hour sessions and vomiting blood. It's a nut. [45:08] That's crazy. Yeah, they said the real problem with Hamzat was that you couldn't get him out of the gym, and he was always overtrained. So then he brings in Sam Calavita. [45:18] And Sam Calvita. From the training lab, right? Right. Yes. So he's monitoring his heart rate. He's monitoring his recovery. And he's working on him with his strength and conditioning. And they're doing it scientifically. And then you see in the Drickus Duplassifite, I mean, he just didn't gas at all. That was the same thing as Islam and Maddalena. Very similar. They tried to do the, you know, maybe what if. What if he can outbox him? [45:40] But it's hard when you've got to worry about so many things. And I think Islam did a great job of showing the leg kicks and making Jack switch. Jack didn't really push forward. And Islam, when he did, shot the double or he shot an outside single. And that's hard. It's hard when you've got to think about so many things. Yeah. Well, you know, Khabib is without doubt one of the all-time greats, one of the greatest to ever do it. But the difference between Khabib and Islam is Khabib. [46:03] Islam is elite stand-up wise. Khabib was very good stand-up, but Islam knocked out Volkanovski with a head kick. That's not in Khabib's repertoire. Islam is on another level. It's like one more level above. He can knock you outstanding. He can knock you out on the ground. He can submit you. He can take you down. He's fucking huge for the weight class, especially 155.

[46:26] It's like there's so many aspects, and you're always thinking about that grappling when you're striking. So when you say like, oh, who's better striker, Islam or Jack Della Maddalena? Well, it depends because if you've got to worry about that takedown, your striking is not going to be the same. It's just not going to be the same because everything he does, you're always looking for that takedown. And that factor leads to guys getting hit all the time. Like if you go back and watch old fights like Kevin Randleman versus Cro Cop. [46:56] Because Crow Cop was worried about the takedown. He was worried about the takedown. All of a sudden, Randleman comes with a big left hook. And Kevin Randleman was a NCAA champ where? [47:04] Ohio State, I believe. Was it Ohio State? [47:08] I believe he was Ohio. 184 or 197? [47:11] How was he heavyweight? [47:13] I don't know. Oh, yeah. [47:15] Three-time Big Ten wrestling champ at Ohio State. He never won the tournament? [47:21] heavyweight [47:26] Wow, who did he lose to in the tournament? Oh, it says heavyweight. Hold on. I'll look that up real quick. Okay. But that was the thing about Randleman is like the speed and the takedown was always this big threat. And so because of that, you're thinking about one thing and boom, you get hit with a big shot. I've seen Kevin Randleman wear shoes in his matches. What's the difference? The early days. [47:46] um what's the difference of wearing i've seen a guy wear shoes now i was on instagram and i saw maybe a kickboxing match um or something like that why can they wear shoes now is there a rule that you can't it's not now all those things are old those are old yeah those are all old pride used to allow you to wear shoes okay early ufc used to be able to wear shoes i saw that yeah i remember the first the first like ufc video i seen was that big huge dude

[48:07] And that little dude that knocked him out, [48:08] Was he the big black dude? Which guy? It was like an old video. Super old. That's not descriptive enough. Okay. I'm sorry. Give me a second. Big huge dude, little black dude. Bob Sapp maybe? Yeah. [48:20] No, that wasn't the big video and then the white dude came out there and he was just whooping them and the big dude tried to grab him. I might be tripping, but I saw the video. Mmm. Well, I don't think you're tripping. I mean, there's been so many fights. It's so hard to like figure out what fight you're talking about. But there's there's an advantage to wrestling shoes for sure. Without a doubt. I mean, the grip on the ground. I mean, how many times you've seen guys? Yeah, this one. [48:43] Oh, Keith Hackney. Yeah. And Keith Hackney had like a very strange style. It was like, I think he was a Kempo guy. And he hit him with like a bitch slap. You know what I'm saying? Like, you ever see how he knocked him down? Like, look at the difference in the size. Emmanuel Yarbrough, who is a sumo wrestler. [49:02] But Emmanuel was probably like, look at that. See, he overhand bitch slapped him. [49:07] This is crazy. [49:09] He basically stepped in and palm-striked him to the head. [49:13] You think he looks if he's if he's still alive, you think he looks back at this video and be like, damn, I got slapped. [49:18] Probably. Damn. I mean, Emmanuel fought a bunch of different things. He fought – I think he fought in pride as well, if I'm – [49:28] Oh, they forgot to lock the cage. You flew out the cage. Look at Thin Big John McCarthy. He lost to Mark Ryland. Mark Ryland of Iowa.

[49:37] There you go. [49:39] That's random what we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. The old days were wild, man. It's wild. It's wild to go back and watch those fights. It's like. Since you since you've been kind of like like a huge figure your whole life, have you gone back and like watch Fear Factor? [49:55] I watched it because my kids were watching it. My kids were watching Fear Factor because there was like a whole Fear Factor channel. Was it True TV or one of those? True TV. Or Spike TV. One of those things. They had Fear Factor on like all day long and my kids were watching it. I thought it was hilarious. [50:10] Man, I was watching it too. [50:12] I'm just going to tell you right now. And all the shit they was doing, hell no. Yeah. A lot of it is in your head. Like a lot of the stuff that they had to eat is not that bad. Some of it was fucking disgusting. Were you trying some while they were trying some? I ate a bunch of things. What was the worst thing? Oh. [50:29] None of the things I ate were that bad. You know, like I ate a Madagascar hissing cockroach. It's like a cockroach the size of like this lighter. Yeah. [50:38] Damn. Yeah. Yeah. [50:39] Yeah. That wasn't bad? It was just crunchy, huh? Yeah, there doesn't have much flavor to it. Yeah. It's more in your head than anything. I'm sure. Being on that show, what was the worst thing you saw someone... [50:52] tense up about. [50:54] The worst thing was what they had to eat and watching people throw up. I watched people throw up every day. You know how the smell of throw up makes you want to throw up? That went away after a while. It was that bad? Yeah. I saw people throw up every week. Every week I was watching four or five people throw up. It was totally normal to be around cute. It was like a candle for you. Because they were throwing up in front of me, and I was telling them that they'd keep going.

[51:18] I'm like, don't worry. You can keep going. You can keep going. Don't put that out of your head. [51:22] This is a task. You want to win? Okay, you can do this. I can help you. I can talk you through this. But you just got to just – you are in control of your body. Force yourself to eat it. Chew it. Swallow it. Get it down. Let's go. But that was the worst is the eating shit. [51:39] Holding your breath underwater was hard. There's a lot of things they had to do that was hard. It's a crazy fucking show. [51:46] There was one where they had to jump out of a helicopter and swim and grab some while the helicopter propellers were blowing the water so they couldn't. We did a few of the things like that. Yeah. Were you ever scared for some of them? I was worried when they had to ride bulls. That one scared the shit out of me because I was like – the stuntmen are animals. If you ever meet stuntmen, they are some of the bravest, toughest dudes alive. And the stunt guys had this attitude about the bull. [52:16] bull. That's a practice bull. And I go, does a fucking bull know he's a practice bull? I bet he doesn't. I bet he didn't get that memo. He don't know that. He's just a bull. That's a fucking huge animal and you're going to get a hundred pound lady to ride this huge animal. That's crazy. It's over with. [52:30] And they got launched and almost got kicked. And we – they rolled the dice a lot and got lucky that no one got seriously injured, I think. And the bull one was the big one for me. I was like, you can't predict that. Like you can – if you got a car stunt, you got to jump a car off a building into like this big cushion. Like, okay. Cool. You kind of know what's going to happen. You know, this is the thing. This could go wrong and this is how we're going to prepare against it going wrong or prepare for it.

[52:59] But you can't prepare for a bull. There's not much you could do. If the bull decides to stomp this person, that person could die. That's a real possibility, especially people that have no business riding bulls. Bull riding is hard for bull riders. Bull riding is tough. It's crazy. And they've got a good seven seconds on that bull if they're great. If they're great. If they're great. And when you're watching it, you're like, oh, my God. You watch the bull kick in and jumping up in the air. It's crazy. I know their lower back kills after that. Oh, we had one guy on Fear Factor who was a professional bull rider. [53:29] shoulder was so destroyed he uh he took his shirt off to show me he has scars all around his shoulder he's like my shoulder pops out all the time it just will pop out a socket he'd go reach for something his shoulder will pop out a socket it was just destroyed it was hanging on by a thread geez that's disgusting how do you live like that though [53:47] I don't know, man. I guess you just deal with it. I guess that's the price you pay for greatness. [53:53] You know, got to pay something. Yeah. Well, they all pay. Every bull rider pays. You see those guys later in their career. They're all stiff because they got fused discs and messed up bolts in their back and shit. They're all fucked up. Spines rubbing. Oh, yeah. It's a terrible messed up. Terrible way to live. I can't. I can't believe that bull riding is a real thing. I know. It's fascinating, though, because you could really see guys go out there and be like, you're facing the devil. Literally. The bull is going to win all the time. Every time. Even if you can do is hang on for seven seconds. [54:23] who could just hang on the bull as long as possible. I'll hang on that bull for 30 minutes. He's going to get you off. Everybody goes flying eventually.

[54:32] Everybody. Everybody. It's going to happen one way or another. Yeah, there's no human being that could just stay on a bucking bull. No. And just like, when I decide, I'll get off. Have you rode? No. Okay, I haven't either. Fuck that. I don't think black people do that. [54:46] I think there are. Is there a couple? It's got to be. There is. [54:52] Ezekiel Mitchell. Oh, look at that dude right there. Bam. Ezekiel Mitchell. [54:56] Look at the size of that thing. I mean, look at his angle. You know what I'm saying? He is so – the bull is so athletic that – [55:03] He's damn near doing a handspring. With the dude on his back. Right. And he weighs 2,000 pounds. He's just throwing his body up and through the air. [55:12] That is... Fuck all that. Like, right there. Like, you easily could get stomped to death right there. It's game over. You fall wrong, he lands on your face, and that is a wrap. Your fucking head is pulverized. I wonder what the... The size of that thing. God. I wonder what the numbers are on, like, if a bull stomps, like, the velocity and the mass of it. Like, what is the generator force from it? Oh, it's got to be insane. How many guys have died? [55:39] None that I know, hopefully. None that I know, but I mean, there has to be like an enormous number of guys that have died bull riding. What's the – since we're on a crazy topic, what is the craziest thing – [55:52] outside of like me fighting taekwondo that you've done that you're like damn like that shit felt good i never did anything other than i had three kickboxing fights but other than fighting that was the

[56:03] the scariest shit that i ever did yeah i mean i've never done i'm not like a i don't you're not a parachute no okay i'm not a bungee jumper i mean i've done bungee jumping on vacation i did zip lining i was like what am i doing this is stupid i don't like doing stuff like that i don't like dumb risks no i'm big so i went on a zip lining one time you know you got to jump off the thing right you got to jump off the platform uh-huh i thought i was gonna joe i'm kidding that might have been my last day on earth if that that line didn't hold me right because what do you [56:33] And it bounces and you're like, ooh. I was in Thailand and I went to do this thing. It was a bungee cord thing. And they said I couldn't do it because I was only 200 pounds. And I was like, that's crazy. Like, what happens if you get a guy that lies about his weight? It's over with. Yeah, because people lie about their fucking weight all the time. I've seen the ones where the guys, they got the squirrel suit on. And they jump off the building or they jump off the rocks. And they go down and they come up. And sometimes they don't. Sometimes they don't come up. [57:01] My friend Andy did that jumping out of a fucking plane. He made it? Oh, yeah. Okay, good. He held the world record at one point in time for the longest squirrel suit flight. What are they called? What do they call those things? Wingsuit. [57:15] He held the record for it. It's ridiculous. But Andy's nuts. He's a Navy SEAL. 18 miles. [57:21] 18 miles? One flight. What do you think he's thinking at like mile nine? Maybe I drop? He's a psycho. I don't know. 18 miles is crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. [57:31] I would never do nothing like that ever. [57:33] No, I'm not interested in parachuting. I'm not interested in any of that shit. I might get on a wakeboat and surf. That's about all. You fall in the water. Not that big a deal. With a life jacket. Yeah.

[57:42] Yeah. [57:43] That sounds reasonable. That's a reasonable thrill. Falling out the sky is crazy. Falling out the sky is crazy, but... [57:51] At least falling out the sky, you have equipment, you check the equipment, you make sure you double check, you've done it before, it's done, you know when to do it. With a bull, there's no safeguards. I mean you have like some sort of a chest protector on some people, you have a helmet. [58:08] There's no safeguards. He could land on your hip. You're never going to walk again. It's over with. Fuck that. It's game over. I can't fathom riding a bull. Yeah. Doesn't Donald do it? Doesn't Donald Cerrone? He rides bulls. [58:20] So he got the name Cowboy, you better do something. He's out of his fucking mind. You got to do something with the name Cowboy. That's a dude that has a real adrenaline problem. [58:27] He's got a real – I mean, rightfully so. He looks crazy. [58:31] He's got a real adrenaline problem. He told a story about getting trapped in a water – he was diving and he got trapped in a cave. And the guy he was with panicked because his cords got tangled up and the water was cloudy and he couldn't figure out how to get out. That was one of the most – I knew he was okay because he was right here telling me the story. But it was one of the most terrifying stories anybody's ever told me. [58:51] But that dude loves that kind of shit. He loves, like, thrills. I can't. I don't think I can get behind thrills. [58:59] I can't. No. It's too much. And especially your heart be like, mm-hmm. [59:05] It's just not worth it. Is today my day? It can't be my day. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. So here we are. It's the new year, which means it's about time to hit reset. Just because it's January doesn't mean you need to disappear into a cold plunge and never drink again.

[59:21] Just rotate in some athletic, non-alcoholic beer. You get the taste, the perfect meal pairing, and the night out, but you wake up without the hangover. With over 185 taste awards, they brew all kinds of styles. IPAs, Goldens, Hazies, you name it. Athletic is proud-brewed in America and sold at over 75,000 grocery or liquor stores, bars, and restaurants across the country. [59:51] their website go to athleticbrewing.com slash rogan to find stores near you or get brews shipped right to your door use code rogan to get 15 off your first online order near beer terms and conditions and certain limitations apply athletic brewing company fit for all times was fighting for the first time was that what was the difference in the difference in the way it felt the first [1:00:20] My when I when I wrestle, I'm not really nervous. I'm more anxious to like perform and put on a good show. When I went out there for my first fight, my heart was beating on my chest. [1:00:29] because [1:00:30] that pin drops and it's like it's me or you and I always had the mentality of like it's me or you it's do or die today's not my day you gotta go but um that first time you're like I'm not [1:00:40] I kid you not, my heart was like jumping. And John had to like look at me in the eyes and be like, yo, you're good. Rely on what you know. We've been here before. You've done this before. There's 2,000 people here. You've wrestled in front of 20.

[1:00:52] Just think about it like that. [1:00:54] And when I thought about it like that, my heart rate calmed down. You know, you kind of get like shaky a little bit. You kind of feel like your legs are not there. And that was kind of my first time fighting. [1:01:03] After that at Dirty Boxing, I wanted to kill that dude. [1:01:07] Which is really crazy because you couldn't even rely really on your wrestling in that. Which is what I wanted. Right. I wanted to go out there and show you that I can throw punches without having to look down at that leg. And that's exactly what we did. [1:01:20] Was that a calculated decision to try to do that as well as just like to just have a pure striking fight? Just so you could show that you could do it and then in your own mind not have your main skill set to rely on? Yes. I really wanted to handicap myself because I wanted to show the people to – and I kind of – hopefully I did show a great show. We definitely did. I want to show the people. I want to show the people at home that are a casual viewer that – who doesn't know Gable? Like, hey, can I turn on Dirty Boxing? [1:01:50] and saying, hey, what is about Gable Stevenson that's special? [1:01:53] And he's a wrestler. [1:01:56] what can be special besides wrestling and then i go out there and i get this knockout and i jump over the ring [1:02:02] And I'm doing the Arthur Jones sack dance. [1:02:06] The crazy thing was the way you leapt over the ring like it was nothing. That was bananas. [1:02:11] What does it feel like to not have... Oh, there it is. Boom. But this is the nuttiest part right here. The big jump. Woo! Like it was nothing. Like it was nothing. Yeah.

[1:02:25] I mean, that is crazy athleticism. [1:02:29] But what's wild about that is you look like a really good boxer. And you have only been boxing for a very small amount of time. I've always had very good confidence in myself. I've always spoke about myself highly. I've always wanted to be over the top. You know, like a WWE. You know, when he gets on the microphone and John Cena is like, you can't see me. Or Roman Reigns is like, acknowledge me. You know, when I go out there, I don't want to have to say those things. I want it to, when you see me. [1:02:57] that's him and and i've always tried to be that's the the bigger than gable person but also like if we had like a routine combo you can see like man he's real human you know you can talk to him he does real things we put on the we put on shoes the same way we put on pants the same way and i feel like a lot of superstars don't really show people that side of them and it's up to them if they want to or they're not but i've always really like showing the families and the kids that like [1:03:20] Man, look at Gable. You know, he's a normal human being. But when you compete, it's special. It's different. But it's just crazy to be able to do that in a sport that you're relatively new at. [1:03:30] I mean, just, man, just think big about yourself. I get it. I tell every kid. I tell everybody. What's crazy about that, honestly, is like I know you're just going to get better at it. That's what's crazy. When you watch someone strike that well early in their striking career, like your striking journey is so new that the sky's the limit as far as your potential. Joe, in the nicest way possible, I really want to say this. That's the worst I'll ever be.

[1:03:56] Mm. [1:03:56] the worst I would be. And for whoever who's going to watch this, [1:04:01] That's the worst ever beat. Just think about it. [1:04:02] Um... [1:04:04] 14 seconds. [1:04:05] And then now think about if you're going to put some time into me, some effort into me, and I'm putting effort into myself. [1:04:11] That dirty boxing is probably the weakest I'll ever be in the sport of MMA. [1:04:15] I believe you. I believe you. I mean it only makes sense if you've been training that short amount of time of striking. Now when you train striking, are you training boxing? Are you doing Muay Thai? Like what kind of – [1:04:26] striking training you're doing are you incorporating it all together in mma i do it all um so a lot of days i go in the [1:04:33] So I kind of have like a really good schedule right now since I'm not going to go into a fight. So I do every day. [1:04:37] Besides Sunday. [1:04:38] Some days or two days, like, because I go to Lifetime and play basketball. I go to Lifetime and sit in a cold tub and sauna and stuff. [1:04:45] But when I strike, I go in there. One round is maybe boxing. Next round is kicks, teeps, knees, everything, elbows. The next round is the blueprint I have of what moves I need to really do to get in to kind of get to my shots. Or I'm going to fake shoot and punch. [1:05:02] And then I probably go 10 rounds, 12 rounds of that, five minutes each. [1:05:06] So you always incorporate all the MMA skills together in a workout. I try to. It's interesting when I was talking to Ilya Tapuria, when he's – particularly when he's not training for a fight, he doesn't do that. He is very rare in that like when he goes – [1:05:23] and he works on his boxing, he'll just box. He just boxes. When he works on his jiu-jitsu, he just does jiu-jitsu. When he works on his wrestling, he just does wrestling. Then...

[1:05:33] He puts them all together with MMA training. But he spends an exorbitant amount of time on each individual skill by itself to really hone and tighten those things out, which is – [1:05:45] It's an interesting choice. And obviously for him, it's worked out spectacularly. Yes, it has. But there's no real – like I guess – [1:05:53] If you want to be like an elite soccer player, I'm sure there's a program that they've kind of devised like this is the very best way to become a good soccer player. They have coaches and they game plan. They know what to do. With MMA, there's all these different approaches. Everyone, Alex Pereira's approach is different than Marab's approach, which will be different than your approach. Everybody's got a different thing. [1:06:17] Yeah, it's just like you said, it depends a person and it also depends the team that you have. I'm just really big on. [1:06:24] I'm still very new, so I'm really big on just trying to make sure I can absorb all the information possible. And kind of when I go into these fights, these first few fights come. [1:06:31] kind of showcase what I can. And sadly, they have ended early, not sadly, but in a good way, you know what I'm saying? [1:06:38] But just go out there and showcase who I am. And when I go train, I don't mind sitting in there all day. Sometimes me and John will practice for hours. [1:06:46] Just sitting there repeating, repeating. And then all of a sudden we go on at 8 o'clock. It's midnight. [1:06:51] But I like that, though, because it makes me feel good. It makes me feel like there's someone invested in me that makes me feel like – [1:06:56] I'm here for a purpose and it makes me feel like this is what I'm... [1:06:59] There's... [1:07:00] There's someone out of the country, there's someone in Russia, when I'm asleep,

[1:07:03] He's up. And I don't like that. [1:07:06] He's up working. So when I can get all the time possible, I'm making sure I get all that time because I don't want that dude to show up one day and he's got a little inch on me. And I just can't I can't think about that happening. I always have that thought in my head with in terms of like UFC fighters like there's such a shallow division. The heavyweight division is so shallow. I'm like, there's got to be some elite Russian wrestlers that are thinking about. [1:07:31] Going the Fedor Emelianenko route like they're thinking about I know Nemcoff who just won the PFL title. He's a very high-level guy [1:07:39] But there has to be some really high-level wrestlers that are considering going into MMA. Right now, Russian heavyweights are really... [1:07:47] not as good as people think in wrestling. Really? They got a guy named Abdurah. She's fed alive. I don't know if you've heard of him. I have. DC told me about him. Man, he is crazy. If he came to fighting... [1:07:57] It's over with. [1:07:59] Not for heavyweights, for the other groups, because he's got to go through me. [1:08:02] If he comes heavyweight. But... [1:08:06] Iranians heavyweights are really good. I think that's where the heavyweight field should start coming from is Iran. They got a lot of good. They got two good guys that are one's my age. I'm 25. And another one is, I think, 22. [1:08:18] They battle for the Olympic spot every year, but the older one wins just by a little bit. The time is going to pass where that guy steps up and he's going to take the spot. So I would watch out for him. [1:08:28] You know, what's interesting with MMA is some guys have a background in wrestling and then they learn how to strike and they fall in love with striking and then they hardly ever wrestle when they fight.

[1:08:41] You know, it's kind of weird. Like you would see that a lot in the early, like Josh Koscheck is a good example, who's a very good amateur wrestler. And then when he fought in MMA, very rarely wrestled. It was mostly striking. You know, he could knock guys outstanding. And I think guys kind of fall in love with that. And then there's also... [1:08:58] The amount of effort, it's so tiring to wrestle. [1:09:01] Along with all the other things that sometimes guys just put that aside and they just decide to stand and bang with people. I really like wrestling. I grew up wrestling. And if I had a chance, I would love to go to the 2028 Olympics. [1:09:13] And win a gold medal. That's how much I still love wrestling. But right now, my path is MMA. And I knew the first couple of times that I would get those knockouts, like, you look at your hands and it's like you're Spider-Man, you got superpowers. Like, I got lightning in my hands. Like, I would have never thought in my 25 years of life that I would go out there and I would left hook somebody and he would be out cold and I would double leg and flip him. [1:09:35] Who would have ever thought that would ever happen? And so like... [1:09:38] You're right. You get obsessed with knocking people out, but I still think my base is wrestling. [1:09:43] I just haven't used the best bass yet. And that's just, I just want to show people that [1:09:47] My best base doesn't need to be used because the second best one is just as good as the first. Well, and the second best one is getting better all the time. That's the thing. And again, I keep going back to this, but if you can get that good at wrestling, you can get that good at anything. It's just a matter of putting in the time and dedicating yourself to that thing. But it's the mindset that allows someone to become an Olympic gold medalist in wrestling. Boy, if that person – that's a scary person.

[1:10:17] ball who gives a shit they'll be elite at it they just have to you will put their mind on it it's 100 a mindset thing it ain't nothing else you can have an athletic ability you can hard work all day you can be so disciplined in the world but if your mind doesn't think it [1:10:31] I feel like that's why I beat a lot of people before I even walked out there is I knew it. I just – you just got to know. And some people – Championship mindset. Some people just don't feel it, and you just got to feel it. I know. You know, it's like – I was talking to a friend of mine. I don't want to mention any names because then you'll connect it to the fighter. [1:10:50] He goes, I don't want to fuck with anybody anymore that needs a mental coach. [1:10:54] And I said, really, why? He goes, it's just like this, just too much. He goes, I want a dude who don't need that shit. You don't need it. It's interesting because some guys do, and some guys, that mental coach takes them over the top, and then they find a way to win where maybe they'd have mental hiccups in the past. But his mentality was... [1:11:14] I want a guy who has no problems. Like, if I'm going to coach a guy, I don't want a guy who's a head case. I want a guy who goes in there and already has this, I'm going to fucking dominate. And if I don't, I'm going to learn why I didn't dominate, and I'm going to come back and I'm going to get him next time. [1:11:29] Yeah. And I feel like that's the person I am. I just want to go in there and dominate. And I also think that a lot of people kind of rely too much on a lot of outside things to kind of make them feel good about themselves to go out there and perform instead of just putting that switch on and just saying, hey. [1:11:44] We're here. Outside things like what? Like we mean? Just, you know, mental coaches, you know, someone you got to get someone else to be maybe a.

[1:11:50] a breath working coach or some another coach, another coach. There's so many labels for coaches out there that you don't need to, [1:11:56] And when I was wrestling in Minnesota, I had... [1:11:59] Brandon Eggum, Luke Becker, who's the assistant and head coach, and Trevor Bramble. That's all I had. [1:12:04] I didn't have nobody else. Because I didn't want anybody to interfere with the connection that we had. And I feel like when you get a great bond with somebody and then you bring in [1:12:12] more people [1:12:14] the bonds get mixed up. People are paying attention to too many different things. Instead of practicing, maybe I got to work on my mind. Instead of working on my mind, [1:12:21] maybe I got to go do something else. Maybe I got to take care of something else. Sort of like when you were talking about not watching video on your opponents because you're thinking about his double, how am I going to stop his double, instead of thinking about what am I going to do. Yeah, I would rather be productive for the team instead of, [1:12:36] productive for [1:12:37] Eight different people and maybe three of them don't care about you as much, you know, they're there just to get a little something from you. Right, right, right, right, right. Where are you training now? [1:12:46] Right now I'm still in Minneapolis. I'm having a baby girl this Sunday. Oh, congratulations. This Sunday my little girl is coming. I appreciate it. Thank you. That's awesome. She's going to pop out. [1:12:54] My lady's hopefully going to deuce that day. If it comes early, it comes early. So that would be really nice. So I'm in Minneapolis right now, but when I do all the main training, [1:13:03] New Mexico [1:13:04] Jackson Wink. Okay. So in Minneapolis, where are you training? That guy with that guy, Billy Simon. Same guy. Yeah. I've been with him forever. So you're in this little tiny... [1:13:13] Jim. I'm in that little gym. Nobody sees us. We got partners that need to come in. But rather than that, I don't want the big lights. When I was growing up.

[1:13:23] In Portage, Indiana, I had a wrestling mat in the garage, and me and my two brothers would wrestle. [1:13:28] And that's where we got the most work in. My dad said, go in there and hand fight. [1:13:31] And whoever comes out, comes out. [1:13:33] And it was definitely not me at the time, but maybe right now it was me. But we would go in there and hand fight. And if you get – my dad's philosophy was – [1:13:41] We had Iowa-style wrestling, and Iowa-style wrestling was brutal. If his face needs to be run into the wall, run his face into the wall. And that's how we grew up. [1:13:49] And if you don't watch your face ran into the wall... [1:13:52] You better put his in first. Right. And so when you're training with this guy, are you training like I could get a call in a week to fight and I'm ready to do that? This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. One thing you probably don't think about when you're planning the perfect summer getaway is protecting your home. But if disaster strikes, you want to be prepared. Even better if it can be stopped before it happens. So check out SimpliSafe. [1:14:22] because their systems help prevent and stop crime in real time before it starts. There's also no long-term contracts and no technician appointments. You can get a custom system and set it up in one afternoon by yourself or even sooner. It's one of many reasons why millions of people continue to trust and use SimpliSafe. Everyone deserves to have peace of mind, which is why I'm happy to partner with SimpliSafe again and offer an exclusive discount. [1:14:52] You can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com slash Rogan. That's half off at simplisafe.com slash Rogan. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. This episode is brought to you by Chime. Chime is bringing something fresh to banking. J.D. Power just ranked them the number one choice for new bank accounts in America. And that's not a small thing. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks.

[1:15:22] at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category that you actually pick yourself. [1:15:39] Your savings rate, nine times the national average. That's crazy high. Go to chime.com slash Rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for more details. [1:16:05] Or are you training like just like developing skills constantly? I just religiously train to develop skills constantly. I try not to never stop. I don't like stopping because I'm kind of a – [1:16:15] This is crazy. I'm a thicker body. So if I sit for a little bit, I feel like I'm getting fat. [1:16:20] And I want to feel that way. So I just try to always keep myself in shape and try to keep the best look possible. So if you need me on one week, which I don't want to do any short notice, just how just how me and John do it, no short notice. Like if you need me in a week, I look good. I'm ready. But. [1:16:34] We just take our time. So did John coach you about that, like give you some thoughts about that? Because I think that's a giant mistake that guys make, you know, and like the Alexander Volkanovsky fight is a good example. The Islam Makachev fight, he took that fight on 11 days notice. He's just been hanging around drinking. [1:16:50] Partying. Just being himself. Just chilling.

[1:16:53] And then all of a sudden he gets this opportunity for a rematch. First fight was razor thin decision-making. [1:16:59] He lost, and he's like, I can do better, but you can't do better without a camp. [1:17:03] You gotta have time to be yourself. Yeah, you have to have time to peek and One of the things I really always admired about John is like even a fight like I [1:17:12] Like the Chael Sonnen fight. They offered him Chael Sonnen on short notice. He was like, nope. Nope. [1:17:17] Nope. And they're like, we need you to do this. He's like, nope. I'm a professional world champion. I prepare for my opponents. And I don't want to fight unless I'm prepared for my opponent. Period. It's the smartest way. [1:17:30] look at him he's the goat yeah i mean it's just so many guys they get and i do appreciate that alex does take those short notice fights and he wins some of those short notice fights but how many times he's fought injured like really injured like the first yuri prohavska fight he had a fucked up knee man and when he when he stopped yuri there's a moment when he's on top of yuri and he's beating on him and the referee stops it and he goes to step up and he rolls off [1:18:00] that's how fucked up his knee was, and he was in a world title fight. [1:18:06] It's bad. [1:18:07] Crazy. Well, I feel like this is the only sport where they would let that happen just because football... [1:18:12] You're sitting on IR. Yes. We don't have no IR. Right. It's either you do it or you say no. Right. And if you say no, they get upset at you. A lot of people get timid. Yeah. And I mean, once you get past that barrier of... I think right now, since I'm going to have this daughter, I think...

[1:18:26] my tone and mindset has changed to kind of really be more of a [1:18:30] a father figure for her, but also for like, if, if kids want to look at me and be like, wow, you know, Gable's normal also. But I think just, you got to say no to a lot of people. You got to be, you got to be generous in a lot of ways, but you also got to be able to go out there and say, [1:18:43] I don't like this. I don't feel this way about this and this is why and I [1:18:48] Be cool on both sides. But some people get scared about that moment. [1:18:51] Are you doing – what kind of strength and conditioning are you doing? So I still lift with the college team. So everything they do with wrestling – The college wrestling team? Yes. Everything they do at the University of Minnesota, I still do – [1:19:03] I still got the same strength coach with them. [1:19:06] Bike sprints, aerodyne sprints, um... [1:19:09] What bike? [1:19:10] Versa climbers everything [1:19:12] We try to mix it in all, rowers, everything, just to stay active. And if it's not where we're getting close to a fight, [1:19:19] just maybe just take longer breaks in between just to keep the heart rate up. But I don't like when my heart rate takes a break. I like to kind of keep it consistent. So when I ramp up. [1:19:28] It's already ready to rock and roll. You already have a very high baseline. Yeah. And when you're doing strength and conditioning as far as weightlifting and stuff like that, are you trying to put on weight at all? [1:19:38] No. No, I like that. You like 250? I like to stay where I'm at. I do a lot of band work, a lot of explosive work, a lot of jumps. [1:19:45] a lot of light weights with high reps just to kind of keep the body moving and kind of keep the [1:19:50] the cutness and the strength there, but not also put too much where you're stiff. [1:19:54] Mm-hmm. And you're naturally a large guy anyway. It's not like you have to put on a ton of weight. But like when you see a guy like Francis, who's 265 natural, you know, and he used to have to cut a little bit of weight to make 265, which is kind of crazy, isn't it? Isn't it crazy? But it's also crazy that the UFC has a weight limit that you have to make at heavyweight. You have to cut weight to make heavyweight. How different do you think it would be if they didn't have 265 and it was just...

[1:20:20] I think it should be no weight. It's heavyweight. It should be – what they really need is more weight classes. The UFC, there's gaps that are just enormous. Like the gap between 85 and 205 is crazy. 20-pound weight gap in between categories, that doesn't make any sense to me. 10 pounds. 10 pounds is still a lot, but at least it's reasonable. How many weight classes boxing have? A shitload. They have so many. [1:20:50] So many weight classes. Boxing got like eight champions for each weight, too. That's a problem. That's a problem. MMA does as well, right? If you think about it, there's the one champion. There's the PFL champion. But the difference is there's really only the UFC champion in terms of the public perception. Like we talked about Nemkov, who's an excellent fighter. Nobody knows who the fuck he is. Not in America. You go to a regular kid, some kid on the street, and you say, who is Vadim Nemkov? [1:21:16] And they're like, "What?" [1:21:17] But I bet you that kid knows I show speed. [1:21:19] I bet they do. Right. I bet they do. Right. They know I show speed. They probably know who Alex Pereira is. They probably know who Islam Makachev is. They know who the UFC guys are. The UFC, that title is worth so much. It's so it's. [1:21:35] And [1:21:36] It's the name. It is the combat sports leader. And if you're not in the UFC, I don't care. I mean, look, you can go to the PFL and you can win that million-dollar tournament. And I'm all for that. And I'm very happy for those guys. They get to feed their family and they...

[1:21:54] They provide and they make a great living and they can retire with some money in the bank. But the reality is – [1:22:01] Part of what you're doing is you're trying to be the best. And if you're going to be the best, you kind of have to be in the UFC. [1:22:07] Agreed. I mean, that's just what it is. There's so many great leagues, but like the most prestigious people... [1:22:13] You can say PFL. You can say anything. And – [1:22:16] You can go to any place and make a shit ton of money, but once you get that stamp of... [1:22:21] He's a UFC champ. People are like, damn, man, that's him. That's it. That's him. Yeah, that's it. They put that UFC belt on you, and it's on ESPN, and everybody sees it. That's it. The PFL is just another belt. It's like, you know, boxing has so many. They have the IBF, the WBA, the WBO, the WBC. It's just like so many fucking organizations. It just gets so crazy. It's like, didn't they try to make Terrence Crawford pay for his belt? Ridiculous. How crazy is that? Terrence Crawford's like, fuck you. I'm the champ. [1:22:51] I just wanted $300,000. Everybody saw it. Is that what they wanted from him, $300,000? Can we get a look on this? Because I might be tripping. But I don't think I'm tripping. Well, they stripped him. I know they stripped him, which is crazy. It's like percentage of purse. And I think it was like 3% of whatever he made. So it was – That's so nuts. That is so nuts. That is so nuts that they get paid that much to just be a sanctioning body. And what are they doing? They're not doing anything. Like it doesn't mean anything. Well, they just get the best-looking guy to maybe throw a belt on you. [1:23:21] that's about all they don't really get nothing else you get nothing you get a belt but the the everybody knows he beat can they beat the brakes off canelo alvarez that's it man i love he's the champion i love canelo as well but i you know

[1:23:36] I love what Terrence did because what Terrence did was crazy. He goes all the way up from 47 to 68. He had one fight at 54, wins the title at 54, and then goes all the way up to 68. And everybody's like, Canelo's going to be too big. Canelo's going to be too big. No way. Nope. Skill. [1:23:56] He's next level. Skill is king. Yep. And he's 38. He's 38. He could do a couple more if he wanted to. I don't think he does. But he don't want to. I think he's done. He's done, and I love it. I love that he's done. $300,000. Dethroned over a $300,000 fee. Wow. [1:24:11] That's crazy. Do you think that's right? No. [1:24:15] Unpaid fees and brief reign as undisputed champion. It doesn't matter. He's the fucking champion. You can't take the guy's belt because he's not willing to give you money. Fuck you. He won. He's crazy. He won. Fuck off. Fuck off. He won. Well, now I see. Is there going to be a new boxing promotion? Zuffa? Zuffa? Sorry. Yeah. So the UFC is doing something with the Saudis. [1:24:41] I think they're launching their first event in January. I think they're launching their first event the night before the big UFC on Paramount event. So it'll be the 23rd. Yes. I don't think they've announced anything in terms of the card, who's going to be on it. I mean, that's not a lot of time. That's only not even a month from now. So I don't even understand how they're doing that. [1:25:01] But – [1:25:02] they're probably going to do the same thing that Riyadh season's doing, you know, which is really smart. Riyadh season's great.

[1:25:11] I mean, it's putting guys into that next level category of, hey, you are a star. And Turkey All Shake is throwing crazy money at these people. They deserve it for a lot of these guys. Oh, yeah. They deserve it. Oh, they definitely do. But it's, you know... [1:25:25] if you... [1:25:26] You do that, you're going to get people to fight that would avoid each other ordinarily. [1:25:32] We've seen that already. The Saudis have already been able to do that. Get guys to fight. You're going to put on the most exciting fights. You're going to put on the best matchups. I think the UFC is trying to do that same kind of model. Now that the Saudis own Ring Magazine. They have the Ring Magazine belt, which has always been the most prestigious belt. [1:25:54] A bunch of different champions in different weight classes. But if you're a fan of Ring Magazine like I am, when you would get Ring Magazine and they would have the ring champion, Marvin Haglund, like, well, that's the fucking champion. That's him. Yeah, that's it. There might be a WBO guy out there, a WBA guy out there. But the reality is that's the guy. That's the guy. [1:26:13] And the boxing needs like a unified champion thing like that. So like when you see Terrence in there with like five belts, like it's great that he's got all those belts. But why? [1:26:25] It should be one belt. It should be like, this is the super middleweight champion of the fucking planet. Period. Fuck all your sanctioning bodies. That's the guy. That's it. One belt is all he needs. And they all have different colors, too. [1:26:39] They're all cool looking. They're all cool looking. I mean, it's cool that he's got them all. I mean, you go over his living room, it's probably dope. The Instagram picture look cool. Yeah, it looks great. I mean, it looked great when he was in the ring and he's got them on his shoulders and shit, one on his waist. I wonder if they fight over who gets to be on the waist.

[1:26:53] You know, like I'll give you an extra 100 grand. You put it on your waist, you know. But the reality is it's like the belt doesn't mean anything. The fighter means something. And when we all know who the champ is, we all know it's Terrence. If this other guy gets the belt, like, OK, you didn't beat Terrence Crawford. So you're not really the 168 pound champion. But isn't that a hard do you think for a boxer like that? Is that a hard shadow to live in? [1:27:16] Or do you think it's a shadow to – or is that labeled as a shadow? Because Terrence leaves and then you step up. Well, that's different. When Terrence leaves, if he gives up all the belts and he really does decide to totally leave, which I'm not totally convinced. Because I think they wanted him to have a rematch with Canelo. And I think he threw a big number at them. This is all I'm reading rumors online. I don't know what's – see if you find out if that's true. [1:27:43] Did they offer – did Terrence Crawford demand like a certain amount for Canelo Alvarez rematch? Because he's coming in soon. I'll ask him in person. But I feel like – [1:27:56] you could probably entice them for one more big fight probably could you know one more big fight at 68 or maybe even at 54. [1:28:04] I mean, really, you can fight at 47. When do you think there comes a point where people need to just stop fighting? [1:28:10] And like, you know, there's always going to be money thrown at you. But when you come up, when you think there's a point that like, [1:28:16] It's different for every person. So here it is right here. So Bernie Davis revealed that Terrence Crawford's price for a Canelo rematch...

[1:28:24] And it's massive. According to Davis, Crawford won't return to the ring with Canelo Alvarez unless he's paid one hundred million dollars. And he deserves it. Rightfully so. Crawford earned 50 million dollars for the first fight in September. But after a tactical low action bout that disappointed many fans. Fuck off. Who the fuck did that disappoint? Who did that disappoint? [1:28:42] You've got to be a casual if that disappointed you. Tactical, low-action bout. [1:28:48] Who wrote this? I don't know. Fuck off. [1:28:51] I think I could write a better one than this. I think boxing has some very disrespectful journalists. I see some disrespectful shit they write about boxers. [1:28:59] Go back to that little thing that it said there. So anyway, pressure now with Turkey Al Sheik to decide whether the rematch is worth that kind of money. Fans are already calling for other opponents. Benavidez, Bivov, fighters they believe bring real action. Oh, so this is kind of a disrespectful... [1:29:17] It's kind of messed up. Real action. Why is he dissing? Why are they dissing him like this? I don't know. They do that a lot. There's a lot of shit talking in boxing, which I guess is fine. I like that there's not that much to that in MMA. MMA is much more respectful. Really standard and respectful. Yeah. And that guy deserves everything. He's one of the greatest to ever do it. And one of the best switch hitters in the history of the sport. Are you putting him above Floyd? [1:29:41] It's hard. It's hard. They never fought each other, which I think would have been amazing if they were both in their prime at the same time. That would have been fantastic to watch. Because ain't Floyd supposed to fight Mike? [1:29:52] How am I tripping? Yes. I think I'm tripping. But I mean, I feel like that's going to be like Floyd versus or excuse me, like Mike versus Roy or like Mike versus Logan. It kind of looks more like a firing. It's feel good.

[1:30:05] A little more sparring, really, than a fight fight. How is Floyd going to fight Mike Tyson? Have you ever spoke to Mike Tyson? Yeah, I've had him on a couple times. Yeah, man. He's my favorite. He's my favorite. Bro, when he was in his prime, there was nobody like him. There was nobody like him because he had that speed, that speed. And that's something that you have. The speed of a lighter person in the frame of a heavyweight is an extraordinary gift [1:30:35] Man, they got big power, like Francis, big power, but they don't move like a lightweight guy. They don't move like a 170-pound guy. When Mike was in his prime, he was so fast. You could see guys trying to calculate and calibrate because it was different. [1:30:53] They were used to fighting heavyweights. And all of a sudden, you got this guy bobbing and weaving and moving towards you and like, ah! It's crazy. Your brain is being overloaded with all the possibilities. It was a totally different thing, man. He's by far my favorite. Oh, yeah. In his prime, he's the most extraordinary heavyweight that ever existed. [1:31:11] Because, and it was, every show was an execution. It wasn't like, you know, oh my God, is Mike going to lose this one? No, in his prime, it was just all executions. And I think the best thing about that, like being popular back in the day, like he was such a big time fighter. I was watching a lot of videos like Will Smith and Magic Johnson were showing up and, you [1:31:28] and Jordan and stuff. Oh yeah. You know how crazy it is nowadays that we have social media that you don't have to go and [1:31:34] and watch someone live.

[1:31:36] But back then, like, when you see the videos of Michael Jackson in this hotel and you look out and it's like, wow, it's Michael Jackson. Like... [1:31:42] That wow factor is like super cool. And he had that to the highest degree. Yeah. Everybody dressed up in the best clothes. They all showed up. Chains on, watches on. Everything. Everybody. It was an event to be seen at. And if you were one of the people that was ringside, you were an elite celebrity. And that was the Mike Tyson era. That was, I mean... [1:32:06] It was different. It was different than... [1:32:09] It was different than any other heavyweight... [1:32:11] like since Ali. So you had Ali and then Larry Holmes who doesn't get the credit that he deserves. He was fantastic. Amazing. Amazing fighter. But he lived in the shadow of Ali. You know, and a lot of people hated him too because he beat up Ali when Ali was already done. Yeah. That was tough to watch. And, you know, he had been Ali's sparring partner when Ali was younger, you know, and so, and everybody knew how good Larry Holmes was and everybody knew that Muhammad Ali was, you know, he was older and... [1:32:41] What's that? Would you do that if you was a sparring partner for your homie? That's got to be a difficult combo because you burn a bridge. Yeah, you burn a bridge with the whole society. But part of it is like you kind of have to, right? Because if you are the heavyweight champion of the world and they want to set up a fight with Muhammad Ali, Muhammad Ali wants to fight you and they want to give you $10 million and it's going to be on TV and everybody is hyped up about it. Like what are you going to do? Say no. I won't fight him. I'm going to.

[1:33:10] relinquish my crown, what are you going to do? I don't know if he had any opportunity to do anything other than fight him. But it's just like... [1:33:19] Muhammad Ali was so beloved, not just as one of the greatest fighters of all time, but also as a cultural figure. [1:33:26] that watching that man beat him up like that just beat the shit out of Ali. [1:33:31] And then seeing Ali afterwards when he had the shakes and he had Parkinson's, and everybody knew that that was trauma-related Parkinson's, and knowing that Larry Holmes dished out a lot of that, I think – [1:33:44] in a lot of people's mind that always that's so and i think that to this day is why larry holmes does not get the credit that he deserves he had one of the greatest jabs in the history of the sport crazy i just saw a video he was flicking it oh even when he fought mike when he fought mike he was way past his prime [1:34:00] He had been out for a long time. Mike did his thing. But there was a round in that fight where Larry Holmes was popping that jab where it made you think, man, what would this fight have been like if Larry was in his prime? It would have been very interesting. [1:34:15] I think Mike was on another level, though. He was. When I see him, he just had the veins. [1:34:21] This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctors' offices, online retailers, insurance companies, the list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone could do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances, and more.

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[1:36:21] unapologetically Dodge. Learn more at Dodge.com. Dodge is a registered trademark of FCA US LLC. You know, like, that's my, like, wow for people. He was a tank. [1:36:34] He was a speedy tank. And just the skill, too. And also that style, that peekaboo style was just so different than anything else anybody was doing. So it was so hard to prepare for. Most of these heavyweight boxers were standing straight up. They were throwing jabs and moving like Foreman or moving like Ken Norton or whoever they were. But Muhammad Ali was the only guy that moved like a lighter guy. He was different. [1:37:04] crouching and bobbing and weaving and coming at you. It was a totally different thing to prepare for. You can't prepare for something like that. That's like when someone is too athletic. That's like preparing for Miles Garrett right now. [1:37:15] You just can't. [1:37:16] He's going to have 25 sacks this year. And it's like, how do you prepare for something like that? Besides try to psych yourself into maybe I can do it. [1:37:23] But this is not going to happen. There's always going to be freaks. [1:37:26] There's always going to be these athletic freaks that can just do things that no one else can do. Now there's more than... [1:37:31] Now there's even more because you see high school football got 6'5", 280 going to Ohio State. I'm like, yeah. [1:37:38] People are bigger. Also, people are doing things for their kids at an early age to optimize their growth and making sure that they come out bigger and stronger and faster. Getting them training younger, strength and conditioning, and plyometrics and shit when they're real young to get them prepared for things. I mean, look, you know Vasily Lomachenko? Yes. The little guy, man. He was fast. That dude's dad took him out of boxing for two years to have him learn Ukrainian dance so that he'd have better footwork.

[1:38:08] dancing on people. I watch his highlights on Instagram. [1:38:11] footwork was insane. Usyk's the same. Same coach. Usyk's the same person. Same coach. [1:38:17] I really like Ussi. Yeah. Oh, my God. Ussi's crazy. Again, one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. [1:38:22] And not a big guy either. He just knows where to go and when to go, which is nice. What's also is constantly moving. He's never right in front of you. He's constantly stepping and stepping and stepping. And he's setting you up. And he's always downloading and calculating your movements and your reactions to things. It's so skillful. That, to me, is the most beautiful thing about boxing is that someone can stand in the fire and be so skillful. Like Crawford. Standing right in front of Canelo. [1:38:52] was pity patnam his [1:38:54] Here's Lomachenko when he's in his prime. Like, [1:38:57] The movement was bananas. And it was just his ease of footwork. [1:39:02] And it wasn't footwork like trying to get away from you. It was footwork standing right in front of you and stepping off to the side and cracking, like that kind of shit. Like these angles is just – unless you – [1:39:14] I've tried to do that. You don't know how ridiculously difficult that is. The conditioning on that is crazy. Oh, yeah. [1:39:21] Yeah, your legs have to be in peak form. Super peak form. [1:39:25] It's just there's so many guys out there that you could learn from by watching, and they set the bar so high. And that is the difference between watching Keith Hackney versus Emmanuel Yarbrough way back in 1993 versus watching John Jones in 2025. It's like we get to see now these guys that have seen it all, the Piotr Jans, the Ilya Toporias, the Islam Makachevs. You get to see the elite of the elite today.

[1:39:55] see that and learn from that and incorporate all these things. And you're seeing these guys that are fighting on Dana White's Contender Series. [1:40:02] They look like world championship caliber fighters, and they're not even in the UFC yet. Most definitely the lighter guys. Most definitely the lighter guys. Yeah, there's so many good guys now. But in the heavyweight division, it's still fairly shallow. [1:40:17] I know. Which is where Gable comes in. [1:40:21] It's funny. I think I heard you say shallow about three times and, you know. [1:40:25] in the most nicest way because I like to be humble with the words and I like to talk with the confidence. I really think I can go out there and do right by the way. [1:40:36] this big promotion and go out there and just be fantastic. I think you can too. And I think you can do what Mike Tyson did, which is revitalize the heavyweight division. [1:40:44] because, uh, [1:40:46] I mean, other than John, who's, of course, a superstar, but he's kind of semi-retired. [1:40:50] The Tom Aspinall serial gone thing was a fucking disaster. I mean, that's a disaster. I mean, Tom Aspinall still can't see. He's got a fucked up right eyeball still. It's really bad, right? I mean, the reality is he might not ever fight again. Like, who knows? Like, if he has surgery on his eye and it doesn't go well and he can't see out of the eye... [1:41:09] Apparently, he's still fucked up in his right eye. There's some tendon damage or something. And, you know, eyes are so tricky – [1:41:17] You never know. Unless you're a fucking complete psychopath like Michael Bisping, who fought 11 fights in the UFC blind in one eye, which is so crazy that he did that. Do you know what he did, that crazy motherfucker? What did he do? He memorized the eye chart.

[1:41:32] Like he memorized it so that he could put a they could cover his left eye. Oh, my God. And he could just whenever he went to do an eye exam, he knew the letters. They would say, all right, read the third chart. And he would say A, B, C, D. He knew what the letters were. Oh, he's smart. [1:41:47] He's crazy. He couldn't fucking see out of one of his eyes and still fought world-class fighters. I think 11 fights he had, only being able to see out of one eye. Yeah. I'm not really sure how to... [1:42:01] how to engage with the eye talk on Tom Aspinall. [1:42:04] But I think he's a fantastic fighter. What do you mean by engage with the eye talk? I feel like getting poked in the eye sucks. And I just don't know how he feels that he got – you know what I'm saying? So I'm not going to – We don't know what he was experiencing during the fight. And nobody ever knows. But critics are going to go online and say X, Y, and Z. But I'm just going to stay in the middle ground. I think Tom's a fantastic fighter. [1:42:26] CRO is great also and I think a lot of them are also great also. You're going to always say it's really shallow and I believe it's shallow too and I believe I can go out there and [1:42:35] and do the best I can and really dominate when I need to. [1:42:38] But just when I see Tom Aspinall, you know, Tom Aspinall reminds me of a guy from Turkey that I wrestled in the Olympics. He was a 2016 Olympic champ. His name is Taha Agul. He was 6'4", same size as... [1:42:51] Same size as Tom. [1:42:53] Same build, same everything. And I went out there and I beat them 8-0. [1:42:56] And I was in his face for that six minutes. And I let him know that that I was here. And I feel like in that instance, that's when the tides change. And I feel like with a guy like Tom, I think I look at him as like a guy like Taha Aguil. You know, he's on top.

[1:43:10] He's the leader. You know, he's still fresh. But I think there's a... [1:43:13] There's another hungry guy that's going to come. [1:43:16] And hopefully it's me that's going to come and go out there and do what I need to do. Well, listen, I hope Tom gets back in because, again, we don't know what's going on with his eye. And for all the critics need to know this, the right eye, that's the problem. But if you look at when he fought his left eye, the finger went deeper in his left eye than it is right eye. So if you think he's faking it. [1:43:36] He was knuckle deep in that fucking left eye. He was all up in that eye. [1:43:40] Yeah, I mean, it's horrible to see, to undergo multiple eye surgeries, multiple eye surgeries. [1:43:46] And that's horrible. By the time a statement goes out, I'll probably have surgery on one eye already. [1:43:53] Next surgery is coming mid-January. [1:43:56] Neck surgery. So he's having surgery on both eyes? You know, it's really messed up. But I think the way the post-fight interview went... [1:44:03] because I like to look at how people approach the world also too and he was just upset how the people were reacting saying why the fuck are you booing why are you doing this I mean there could have been a [1:44:14] They're going to have a great approach to that of him saying, man, you know, [1:44:17] I got my eye poked, but I'm going to come back stronger from this. Well, the problem is people are always going to doubt you when you get poked in the eye. There's always going to be a bunch of people like, oh, you're fine. Because people have gotten poked in the eye and they have continued fighting. Yeah. [1:44:30] But is that smart? It's a foul. First of all, I think every time a guy gets poked in the eye, one point deduction immediately, instantly, maybe even two points. You should never do that to a person. Never. One thing you notice about Pyotr Jan's fight with Merab, he fights like this.

[1:44:48] His hand is in a fist. So when he's got his hand up like this and the front hand is extended, he's not doing that. He's kind of guiding you. Yeah. Honestly. Honestly. [1:44:57] Well, he's letting you know this motherfucker is coming, you know, and he's also like in a shell, very well protected by having that one hand up like that and have that shoulder. He's got the chin blocked and then he's doing this with this hand. It's a very good defensive position. Also, very skillful because he's so good defensively in terms of his movement and the way he's able to roll with punches and get out of the way in time. But he never – [1:45:21] pokes in the eye. He's not doing that. Cyril Gaon has a habit of doing that. Why do you think that is? [1:45:27] You can speculate. [1:45:28] You could speculate all day long. You could say he wants to do it. I mean, ask John. John's poked people in the eyes. He does it all the time. Yeah. I mean, even if you would have took the points from him, he still would have won. Yeah. I know. It's just – it's one of those things. It's like – [1:45:42] Here's a problem. Why are the fingers out in the first place? [1:45:46] Like, why don't they cover that shit up? Like, why don't they have it like one of those Everlast bag gloves? Like a mitten. Where it's like a mitt. Yeah. I mean, have the thumb out because you don't grapple with these anyway. You don't do this. You never do this. So why do the fingers have to be loose? If you grapple, you're grappling like this or like this. Like, if you're clenching your hands together, you're never clenching your hands together like this. You never interlace your fingers together. So why the fuck are they open in the first place when it only causes problems?

[1:46:16] that covered the tips of the fingers like a mitten. [1:46:20] We would have way less problems with this shit. You'd occasionally probably have a thumb in the eye every now and again, but you would have at least – [1:46:29] eight less possibilities for each fight of things going into your eye. [1:46:33] True. [1:46:33] It just makes sense, and it wouldn't hinder grappling. You just have a thin piece of leather that the padding goes over the knuckles. The piece of leather goes over the tip of the fingers. [1:46:45] and have it come down like this, like a mitten. It's not hard to design. If it was a mitt... [1:46:49] And I'm on top. And I grab wrist control. Do you think the leather of the mitt sticks harder? Probably. Probably. [1:46:56] Yeah, probably aid grappling. It'll probably make fights better. It'll probably do stuff like you'd probably be able to get more takedowns. Maybe. [1:47:05] I don't know, man. Maybe when the leather gets wet, maybe it becomes slippery like a finger. [1:47:09] We'd have to find out, but at least we would have less eye pokes. [1:47:14] And [1:47:15] It's not going to hinder the striking at all. Mm-hmm. [1:47:18] There's no need to have these fingers exposed like this. No, there's no need, but... [1:47:22] Two great fighters. I mean, accidents happen. Accidents happen and also purposeful fouls happen. And I'm not saying that Cyril Ghosn did it on purpose, but he did it like five times in that fight. I rewatched that fight a couple of times. [1:47:38] Aspinall came towards him. He was doing this every time fingers outstretched pointed towards the face. It's just I [1:47:45] It's illegal. You're not supposed to ever do that. Your fist should always be balled up when it's moving towards your opponent's face. But we don't have to have these goddamn fingers covered like that or open like that. They should be covered. It's not.

[1:48:00] Impossible to do. It could be really easy to design a glove like that. I don't understand for the life of me how the sport's been around since 1993 and no one has introduced gloves like that. [1:48:12] True. [1:48:12] No, you're right. [1:48:14] Um... [1:48:15] A really good thing I wanted to ask you. [1:48:17] is for someone new coming in to a sport that a lot of people know, how do you think they should bridge the popularity? [1:48:24] of the sport and also the real life of who the person is. [1:48:28] I might be saying this in a hard way. No, I know what you're saying. How do you think they should because you know, I've been around a lot of people. [1:48:35] But, you know, it always gets bigger and always gets bigger. And how do you bridge that gap of... [1:48:41] keeping that same mind frame of like, man, you know, I'm the guy, but... [1:48:46] I need to reset. I always need to reset. I need to make sure. Yeah. [1:48:50] Well... [1:48:50] It's going to be dependent upon you, right? And it's going to be a rocket ride that you're on. And the pressure and just the overall – like not being able to go to the mall is going to be weird. It's going to get weird. It will get weird. You're going to get mobbed at the airport. It's going to get weird. And – [1:49:06] You're going to have to [1:49:10] You're going to have to figure out a way to have your own private time. That's very important. When guys never have private time, they're always surrounded by people. You could lose yourself. You could lose your way. And just fame itself. [1:49:21] Fame itself is very complicated. It's very complicated for people, especially for fighters, when your entire identity relies on the way other people perceive you.

[1:49:32] That's not good. It feels good when you're on top because everybody's like, "Oh, there's Gable. He's the fucking man. Whoa, you're the man. You're the man." But if you rely on other people's opinions of you for your self-esteem and your self-worth, then the moment you have a stumble, you know, what if you get eye poked? You know, what if you get eye poked and then also, "Gable's a bitch. Gable fuck." And you're like, "What? What?" And then you're dealing with the opinions of morons and they're affecting your own feelings about yourself. [1:50:02] And then there's [1:50:03] All the other pressures that come with money and people trying to scam you and business deals and bullshit and this and that. And they want you to do movies and that kind of shit. You know, like, look, that's the bane of fighters' existence when Hollywood gets involved. That kind of, in a lot of ways, led to the decline of Ronda Rousey and, in a lot of ways, Conor McGregor. People start fucking, you know, throwing everything at you. You're doing cell phone commercials and all this different shit. [1:50:33] gets in the way. It gets in the way of your training, but it also gets in the way of your ability to... [1:50:40] have that [1:50:42] deep pressure time to be yourself and to be alone with your thoughts, which I think is very important just to solidify your own understanding of who you are as a human being. [1:50:54] You know, and you don't want to be defined by other people's opinions and perceptions. [1:51:00] And then there's also like – the UFC does a fantastic job of showing who a fighter really is. The Countdown series, the UFC Embedded series. So when they're doing stuff like that and you get to see this person –

[1:51:15] Interacting with their family going to training camp and going through the weight cut and you get to see who they are joking around with people hanging out with their friends laughing and [1:51:26] That's important too because people really want to relate to you. They don't want this guy who just appears every five months. You don't know shit about him and then all of a sudden there he is in the ring again and you're putting all these things on him and imagining what he's like. [1:51:43] The more they can get to see behind the curtain, the better it is for you, especially if you're a good person and you're an interesting person. They get to see – it's also inspiring for people to – [1:51:53] They like you like to talk about yourself. You're a regular guy. You put your shoes on one foot at a time like everybody else. But like, wow, look at the greatness this regular guy can accomplish. Maybe maybe I can do this. Maybe I can do something like that. Maybe in whatever I'm doing in life, whatever if I'm a fucking skier, I'm a whatever, whatever your job is. Maybe I can be great and be a normal person like this guy is. True. No, 100 percent. Well, that's a. [1:52:20] That's a fantastic answer because, you know, [1:52:22] I just feel like at some point I'll get to that spot. [1:52:25] You know, like, how do I how do I know if someone's not real? How do I know if someone is in that in that space of things change? And there's leeches. There's bad people. There's bad people. So, you know, [1:52:36] It's always a nice thing to have someone that has surpassed that level that you can finally see and be like, man, like how did you – how did you change the direction? Well, John is a great guy to talk to about that. Obviously, John has had his stumbles and – which is – when people talk about John and the things that John has gotten in trouble with, I'm like, listen –

[1:52:54] Do you want a wild motherfucker or not? OK, if you want a guy to be the greatest of all time in fucking cage fighting, he's going to be wild. That's one of the reasons why he's great. When John was, what is he, 22 years old when he won the title? He's fighting 23. Mauricio Shogun Hua, who's an all time great pride legend. He opens the fight with a flying knee. [1:53:17] Who does that? [1:53:18] You've got to be wild. You've got to be a wild fella. That's John. I mean, and [1:53:25] You know, obviously there's stuff he shouldn't have done. There's, you know, a lot of extracurricular activities, a lot of partying. It's not healthy. It's not good. [1:53:34] that [1:53:34] is what comes with being that kind of a guy. [1:53:38] And [1:53:39] you know [1:53:40] John could probably tell you [1:53:43] more about this than anybody that's ever lived. Like, what were the stumbles? What could I have done differently? And he probably could help prepare you more than anybody ever. Most definitely. He's already kind of put a big foot into it. And man, he's amazing with a lot of things now. You know, he talks so well now. A lot of things are... [1:54:00] are [1:54:01] in a sense of he's trying to look out for me in business opportunities and places that I need to go. And it's amazing. You know, a lot of people don't do that, especially when you see the peaks and valleys of that person and their public info also. And a lot of people don't want to give people the chance because you see something about someone into – [1:54:18] You finally meet them and it's like, man, like, [1:54:20] This guy's a whole different person you would have never expected. And so, man, with John, he's just opened a lot of doors and kind of he is doing that guiding of me. Well, that's great, too, because John is essentially guiding his replacement. Right.

[1:54:33] You know, which is really hard for a lot of people to have that kind of self-awareness, know that there's only a certain amount of time that I can do this for. And I see this young, great man who's coming up and I'm going to help him and I'm going to give him some advice that maybe would have been amazing if someone gave me. [1:54:49] Because John didn't have some heavyweight champion training with him that could teach him those things. No, he's out of scratch. Especially not someone at that level, the level that he's at. Man, I know he's honored. [1:54:58] We're both honored. Yeah. He just, like I said, he called me today. [1:55:02] He was just, man, I really think you should... [1:55:04] just let the world know who you are and just, just kind of give people the real feel of, of who you need to be. Yeah. And, and I've always, I've always loved to have, like, like you just talked about with the UFC of bed is, you know, you see the real human being and I've always liked people seeing a real human being because, you know, [1:55:17] We all do shit the same way. There's nothing special. There's nothing special. Some people just have more money. Some people just have more status. [1:55:23] But at the end of the day, hopefully we can all sleep in a bed. And I know some people don't, which is sad to see. But it's just some people live different lives. And I want to live a life where it's happy and healthy. [1:55:33] with the people I have and I can meet so many people and I feel like I'm doing a great job right now so [1:55:37] Man, any input I can get on how to be better. [1:55:40] how to be more mature, how to be more sound, especially from John. I'm getting a lot, but to hear from you, you know, you get different perspectives of you were in a different realm. [1:55:50] than John also, but you guys are also in the same place. You do the podcast and John's semi-retired, but you see the two different lives of two different well-respected people. [1:56:01] Well, it's that mindset that you have to really want to acquire that information and really sort it out and know that these challenges are coming your way. The money and the fame and all that stuff is the thing that everybody focuses on.

[1:56:16] But really, the focus is on excellence. Excellence is what brings you the money. Excellence is what brings you the fame. And the moment you start thinking about the fame and the money and not thinking about the excellence – [1:56:29] You've lost your way. You've lost your way. And a lot of people lose their way. A lot of people, that money and that fame, it starts coming and all of a sudden you're just thinking about numbers. You're thinking about the house you're going to buy and the car you're going to drive and all that stupid shit. [1:56:41] And you lose your way. [1:56:43] an [1:56:44] One of the things that I always try to tell people, I try to tell young comedians especially – [1:56:49] is that think of the attention that you have like it has a number value. Like the attention – like let's imagine – like if you had $100, you know you can only spend $100. Let's imagine your mind only has 100 units of focus. You have 100 units of focus. Any focus that you have on other shit outside of the thing that brings you excellence is just robbing from excellence. That's all it is. [1:57:19] in your life that's ruining everything. Or you got some friend who's a hater and you think he's like maybe like hoping you fail. [1:57:26] All that stuff that's distracting and is just robbing attention from excellence. And some of it's unavoidable. And some of it actually strengthens your resolve to have a certain amount of like – [1:57:39] shit in your life [1:57:41] Just to understand how to maintain and still be excellent despite of all that. There's probably some resilience building that comes from that. But.

[1:57:51] Thank you. [1:57:52] Protect your focus. It's precious. Protect your time. Protect that energy that you have to invest in things. It's so precious. The mind, your focus, and your drive, that is everything in your life. That's everything. And anything that steals from that – I remember this was one fighter. [1:58:14] And he was a very good fighter that was fighting in pride, and he had this crazy girlfriend. And every time he was going to fight, like the day before the fight, the girl would start problems. And she would start fights, and she left the hotel like 1 o'clock in the morning and went down to the bar. She wanted him to fail. She wanted to be more important than his fighting career. And his fighting career was so important and so overwhelming that she felt like she wasn't getting the attention that she needed. So she would go get attention from him. [1:58:44] deal from him. And it was crazy. And this guy, and he never wound up being a champion. He was a very talented guy too. I don't want to say his name, but it was one of those things where it's like, man, man, [1:58:55] There are people in your life you've got to recognize when you're dealing with that kind of a person. You've got to recognize that. You've got to cut them out. You've got to get rid of them. They're stealing. They're stealing from your focus. They're stealing from your ability to create excellence. And that's what you're in the business of. Mm-hmm. [1:59:13] You know? [1:59:14] You're in the business of excellence, and anybody that's trying to steal from that [1:59:19] Like those are liabilities. They're – that's like you got a hole in the bottom of your boat. You got to patch that shit up.

[1:59:26] Well, it's just like Mike Tyson kind of said, you know, once you're favored by God, you're also favored by the devil, too. Ooh, that's so true, too. Yeah, the temptations will come. Yeah. And then also you start believing your own bullshit, you know? I mean, look at John when he wasn't training, you know? But luckily for John, he was so much better than everybody in the division that all it took was, like, a readjustment. Like the Dominic Reyes fight, he almost lost that fight. [1:59:50] you know and [1:59:52] Dominic Reyes, as great as he was that night, should not have been beating Jon Jones. I think Jon Jones... [1:59:59] with like a real focus. [2:00:02] And a real, like... [2:00:04] real drive towards destroying Dominic Reyes would be on another level. [2:00:09] I think so, too. [2:00:10] It's like he is the best guy to be in your corner, man, because he's made all the mistakes and still come out the goat. Like who better to tell you how to do it right? There's no one better. Man, probably the greatest, of course. [2:00:25] The greatest by far. What do you do for chill time? Like, what do you do to unwind? Honestly, right now, I like Call of Duty. I play a lot of Warzone. Ronnie 2K, you know who that is? No. The dude that made the basketball game? Okay. So I got my own player on 2K. And it says, like, so when I load into the game, it says my real name. And then people know you're playing against me. Oh. So it's either I'm playing Call of Duty or 2K. [2:00:50] Um... [2:00:50] I mentioned before the French Bulldogs. I mean, I like to take care of French Bulldogs. I feel like – Jamie's got one.

[2:00:56] You do? Yeah. Oh, he's so cute. Should have brought him today. Should have brought him. What? We didn't know. We didn't know you were into French Bulldogs. So I had, sadly, I had two pass away. I just had one pass away. He had IVDD in his neck. And that's a bad, it's a disc disease that happens in French Bulldogs because they're bred so bad. And so my first one had it in his back. [2:01:18] um he was playing all day and then i turned and he was like paralyzed in an instant and i was like oh man like that's not good so i had to put him down um oh that's horrible and then i adopted one after this is like i adopted one a year ago he just passed away a [2:01:33] Um, his name was Archie, my little guy. Um, [2:01:36] He had it in his neck, and I had him on painkillers for like six months. And I looked, and one day he kind of rolled wrong, and he kind of yelped again, and I was like, we got to take him in. Oh, that's horrible. So it was bad. You know, I got bad attachments to friends' bulldogs. Like, they're like my... [2:01:52] Since I'm having a real baby now, that's like my second baby. You're going to be amazed how much you love your real baby more than you love your dogs. As much as I love my dogs, it just – There's just another level. Oh, it's beyond. It doesn't even compare. One of my dogs went to surgery today. He had a hernia. I have a golden retriever. [2:02:13] And I have a King Charles Spaniel. He's the cutest little dog. He's so fucking cute. He's seven months old. And he was born with a little hernia. It's like some of them get that little hernia in their tummy. So they had to stitch them up. But when I was playing with them last night, I was so scared. I was like, what if something happens to him? I can't.

[2:02:34] I can't take it, you know, because I love him so much. He's so sweet. He just, like, when I pick him up, he, like, kisses me, like, constantly, and he makes noise. [2:02:46] And sometimes he barks, while he's kissing you, and you're like, I love you too, I love you too. And his little tail's wagging. He wags his tail with his whole body. [2:02:54] Like his whole body's wagging. Just wiggling all over. Oh, yeah. Mine would go after the ears. Yeah, he does that too. And he would like – Nibble? Put a whole nibble on the ear and then he would switch sides. And then he would switch sides. Yeah, mine does that too. I'm like, bro, let me live for a little bit. [2:03:06] I'm his whole world. And I feel like sometimes we forget that. Yeah. Well, they're little love devices. They just want love from you and they want to give you love. They never have bad days. They're never shitty. They're never in a bad mood. They're always cool. Every day is the same thing. Every day I see them in the morning like, good morning. And they go crazy. And I get on the ground with them on the carpet and roll around and kiss them. Just letting them roll all over. I love dogs. [2:03:36] I'd have 50 dogs. I wish we could make them live longer. I know. Making them live longer would be crazy. Cats are like 20 years. Why can't a dog be 20 years? Well, I think they are working on that. I think there's actual startups right now that are working on animal longevity. Yeah. [2:03:51] Which would be cool. Yeah. They're working on different medical interventions that can allow dogs to live longer, which is amazing. [2:03:59] Fascinating. And then sometimes people, they clone their dogs. Tom Brady just did that. Yeah. I don't know how he did it, but I mean. That's weird. Hey, have a good time. That's pet cemetery shit. That is.

[2:04:10] That might be hereditary. Yeah, I don't know if I'm into that. [2:04:13] I don't know how I feel about that. I feel like every dog has their own unique personality. And as much as I love the dogs that I have now – like I had my dog Marshall. [2:04:24] He's almost nine, or he just turned nine, rather. And... [2:04:28] I've had him since he was a puppy. I love him to death. But then I got this new dog, Charlie, and I love him to death, too. He's a totally different personality. I don't mind new dogs and new personalities. I don't need the same dog over and over and over again. [2:04:42] You know what I mean? I think that's weird. You just try Friends Bulldog. They got like 12 different personalities. Oh, I love Carl. Jamie brings Carl in. He's a little psycho. He's got too many personalities. Oh, he runs at you and just wants to play. They got that bowling ball head. I know. He's a little ball muscle, too. Carl's jacked. [2:04:58] Carl, he's getting stacked. [2:05:01] I need to see a picture. You got pictures of him? I need to see a picture. Pull up a picture of Carl. He's adorable. He plays at my Golden and he just like throws himself like a meat missile at my Golden. Because my Golden is like so gentle, which is great because Charlie is only 15 pounds, my little dog. And so my Golden is like playing. And he like gently puts a paw over him when they play. There's Carl. Look at that inner face. Look at that inner face. [2:05:29] I just know he does everything extra. Oh, yeah. Oh, look at him sleep. Yeah. [2:05:33] He's really nice. [2:05:35] He's adorable. But when he plays with Marshall, it's really crazy. We got a video of him playing with Marshall. Did you get his nose done? Nope.

[2:05:41] No, he's just... Wow, that's perfect. That's really good. Some of them have fucked up noses. Well, they come out like this. Oh, no. And then they can't breathe, and so they breathe out their mouth, and sometimes they got to get... It's like solder. Mm-hmm. They clean that out. They make like a bigger hole. That's awful. But some of them have it where like... [2:05:58] you have to go in and kind of help the esophagus because their face is flat. So you've got to help, like, the back and kind of cut it to where – [2:06:06] it can go down the pipe. Oh, no. [2:06:09] Crazy. Crazy. I wish people... I wish so dogs could live forever. Those dogs got a million different characters. I know. Well, I love all kinds of dogs, man. I love working dogs. I love German Shepherds and Belgian Malinois. Can't Corso be cool? They're a little dangerous. That's what I'm hearing. They only lower to one person, if I'm not mistaken? They don't like to listen. Yeah. Well, never mind. My boy, Mark Dellegrate, from Sit Yotong Muay Thai, he... [2:06:39] Coached a lot of UFC fighters. Coached Kenny Florian. Great Muay Thai coach. Great guy. Works for the UFC. He had a Connie Corso. They had to put him down. [2:06:47] bit his hand [2:06:48] Like, damn. Chomped down on them. Yeah. And he had it for years. Out of nowhere? Well, you know, he was testing them. [2:06:53] Like sometimes those dogs, and not all of them, but some of them, they will test you. [2:06:58] You know, and you just can't have a dog that's biting you. No, because what else? What if it bites your kid? Yeah. What if it bites your wife? Yeah. Facts. What if it bites the mailman? You never know. Yeah. [2:07:10] It's just like those – and it's not all of them. Like I've had pit bulls and I never had a pit bull that even wanted to bite a person.

[2:07:17] They were always like the sweetest with people. But then you hear stories. You hear stories. Which is crazy. I know. Because how can I go online and see a pit bull just not letting go of somebody but all of a sudden – [2:07:28] The next video, I see a Pitbull wearing a Christmas sweater. I know. [2:07:32] Paul shoes on. I know. So it's weird. I know. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't. But it's just like people. Some people are born crazy. Some people are born crazy. Yeah. Yeah. [2:07:43] Are you big into anything like... [2:07:45] What do you believe in conspiracy-wise? What's your big one right now? Don't open up that door, Gable. Don't open up that door. Oh, my God. I love a good conspiracy. My dad's diehard conspiracy. If you and him had a talk. Uh-oh. What is his big one? What's the big one with him? [2:08:02] I don't even know. But I know he's really bad. I think that the biggest one right now, he just said it, but I don't even know. I don't even want to say it wrong. [2:08:12] But that's my thing. But I'm big on conspiracy. What is the subject? Do you remember the subject? [2:08:18] Some about... [2:08:19] I don't even want to say it. [2:08:20] Okay. I don't even want to say it right now. [2:08:22] Okay. [2:08:23] We'll talk off air. Yeah. Okay. [2:08:27] But I believe there's a lot of things we don't know as people. And I believe there's a lot of. [2:08:31] A lot of conspiracies are real. That's the problem. The problem with conspiracy theories is some of them are crazy and ridiculous – [2:08:38] But the reason why people entertain crazy and ridiculous ones is because some of them are real and they're so nuts that you go, they did what? [2:08:46] Just when you find out about U.S. history alone, you find out that the reason why we got into Vietnam was – I don't know this, you've got to know. Okay, it's called the Gulf of Tonkin incident. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was supposedly the North Vietnamese, the Viet Cong, attacked one of our ships. But it was fake.

[2:09:05] They faked it. It's not real. It's called a false flag. And they did it just to have a story so that we would have an excuse to invade Vietnam. So we sent all those people to Vietnam for nothing? A lot of people died for nothing. A lot of people died for nothing. And a lot of people made a lot of fucking money. And it probably had to do with drugs too. Yeah. [2:09:21] Because they were moving heroin out of Vietnam. I mean, it was control of the heroin trade was a big part of it. There was also why... This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. This summer, soccer is here, and the watch parties will be going back to back to back. But don't worry. Uber Eats has your game day essentials covered with 30% off all orders from Aldi, Kroger, and Dollar General. [2:09:51] like chips, dips, wings, guac, and fresh ingredients for the perfect game day spread. Order in so you can stay locked in on the game, all the hosting, none of the hassle. Order now for 30% off your game day snacks and grocery order only on Uber Eats for a limited time. Offer eligible for 30% off entire order. Taxes, fees, and terms apply. Offer valid through July 5th. [2:10:22] Exclusions may apply. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. When you're looking to hire, you consider someone's skills, experience, availability. But even more important than that is someone's enthusiasm. They should want to be there. Finding the right kind of motivation isn't as tough as you think. You just need ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan.

[2:10:51] instantly and their latest feature puts the most interested ones at the top of your list so you can make sure you're speaking with the right people at the start use zip recruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast four out of five employers who post on zip recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day and now you can try it for free at zip recruiter.com slash rogan [2:11:21] Rogen, meet your match on ZipRecruiter. The reasons why we were in Afghanistan. While we were in Afghanistan, heroin production in Afghanistan was 94% of the world's heroin. And it ramped up after we invaded Afghanistan. It went up. Heroin production, not only did it go up, but we were guarding poppy fields for the Taliban. Why do we need to guard poppy fields? For the farmers, rather. [2:11:45] Why do we need to guard them? [2:11:46] Well, that's a really good question. Are we using it for medical here? [2:11:49] Or they're just getting used to fuck people up? It's money. It's money. There's people... [2:11:54] There's dirty money that gets moved around for sure. [2:11:58] When you're dealing with something like the drug trade and billions of dollars are going all over, people want a piece of that. [2:12:07] And there's high-level people that are dirty. [2:12:10] and they get involved in that and they make decisions based on that and [2:12:15] and [2:12:15] They put people's lives at risk, and people die because of it. And that probably happened in Afghanistan. It definitely happened in Vietnam.

[2:12:22] And people don't want to believe that. People are hearing this right now. Oh, stop with that nonsense. But it's true. I mean, there's a video of Geraldo Rivera interviewing these military guys that were guarding poppy fields in Afghanistan. [2:12:37] And the guy who's interviewing is very reluctant to talk about it, but it was on Fox News. And he had to talk about it because everybody was aware of it. It was becoming a big conspiracy online. And they were coming up with some sort of a rational reason why they needed to guard their heroin production. Because we need them to tell on the Taliban and like, really? [2:12:59] Really? Really? [2:13:00] So we're letting the farmers poison young people and heroin addicts all over the world because we want them to give us information about – is that really what's going on? Or are you motherfuckers making money out of this? They've got to be making a lot of money too. A lot of money. A lot of money. [2:13:15] Well, I just saw the story about that guy from, um, [2:13:18] He was a football player from Australia. He was selling drugs. [2:13:21] What was that story? He's not from Australia. He went to USC quarterback. [2:13:25] He was selling drugs? He was selling drugs out of an apartment in Australia for a cartel that was from Tijuana. I forgot his name. It's his quarterback. I feel like a lot of people know it. It's a real recent story? It's a real story. A recent story? From recent from what I've seen, it might be like a couple years older. [2:13:43] But yeah, he got caught because someone along the way... [2:13:47] was a middleman for a lot of... Wild true story behind cocaine quarterback, signal caller for the cartel. Wow. And they said he was making like a million dollars a day. And cash. And he was trying to move it through Las Vegas casinos.

[2:14:02] But the middleman, someone messed up the bet. [2:14:05] And he lost the money. So he had to loan money from someone. And that someone was like an undercover waiting firm like a year later and caught him at a McDonald's before he went across the road to Tijuana or something. [2:14:17] It's crazy, yo. You know how drugs control a lot of things, and it's messed up. Well, it's the money. When you think about how much money gets... [2:14:25] moved around in the drug game. [2:14:27] And people get tempted by that. And then you get a hold of some legitimate businessman and you say, listen, there's a way for you to get 10x return on your money. You invest in this. We do that. It's simple. You'll never get dirty. All the money goes to offshore accounts. No one will know about it. You can retire when you're 45. Crazy. And then people start getting roped in. It's also the excitement of doing something naughty. [2:14:52] That's part of it too. Some people just get – some people like to ride bulls. Some people like to do some shit they're not supposed to do. [2:14:58] They get addicted to doing things that they are not supposed to do. They get addicted to the life of... [2:15:05] DEA agents. [2:15:07] A lot of DEA agents become drug dealers. Well, it's just like that show Narcos Mexico. Yes. It's the same thing. Exactly. [2:15:17] Or Cocaine Cowboys. Have you ever watched that documentary? No. What's that about? Amazing. Cocaine Cowboys 1 and there's Cocaine Cowboys 2. There was so much corruption in Miami during the 1980s, during the cocaine time, that one graduating class of the police academy,

[2:15:37] jail. [2:15:38] How do you do that? Because they were all corrupt. They were all involved in cocaine dealing. All of them. Because there was so much money. Everybody's driving a Corvette. Everybody's living large. Everybody's doing blow and wearing diamonds. It's crazy. It's like you get caught up in that life. [2:15:53] And if you're involved in – like you're a police officer and everybody around you is dirty, it's more likely you're going to be dirty too. Well, now aren't they kind of blowing – [2:16:06] the Ecuadorian ships up that are coming to here that are having a lot of drugs on them. Yeah, Venezuela, right? Venezuelan ships. Yeah. They're just blowing them up. I don't even know. I'm not educated on stuff like that. But I wonder if it's for... [2:16:19] To keep the trade here. No, I doubt it. I think more likely what it is is because Trump genuinely hates that they're bringing drugs into this country. Is there other things involved too? I don't know. I mean I'm sure some of it has to do perhaps with politics. I mean I think that's a reasonable assumption. But, Jamie, I just sent you something. Here's what's interesting. [2:16:42] One of the things that Trump was saying is they're poisoning our kids and 100,000 people are dying every year from drug overdoses. We have to put a stop to this. [2:16:52] Thank you. [2:16:53] From the time Trump's been in office... [2:16:57] Deaths by overdose have dropped off a cliff. Look at that. [2:17:00] Look at 2024. Hmm. [2:17:03] And leading into 2025. Just going down. These are all deaths from overdoses.

[2:17:09] I mean, that's kind of crazy. [2:17:11] Like, look at that from all drugs, which is the top one. Look at that drop. [2:17:17] I mean, that's crazy. So you see the peak was in 2022. Mm-hmm. [2:17:23] or it looks like actually between 2023 and 2024. That's the peak where people are dying. And then from the time Trump's in office... [2:17:32] It's taking a fucking sharp downturn. [2:17:36] And why is that? Well, part of it is because they're blowing up these fucking boats that are bringing in all the drugs. And not just drugs, but drugs that are tainted with fentanyl. Fentanyl is terrible. Terrible. Because a little piece can kill you. Exactly. It's smaller than a penny and you're dead. And people are snorting lines of it. And they don't even know what's in there. And the cartel, they're buying – they're taking shitty drugs and mixing it with fentanyl so it has an effect. It's crazy. [2:18:06] a Xanax and it's not a Xanax. It's fake and it's got fentanyl in it. And they're dying from that. They're dying from Coke that they think it's Coke and fentanyl's in that. It, you know, it's horrible. There's so much access to things in this world right now that I feel like is, there's so many attainable things that people don't even think about that. [2:18:24] A lot of shit happens in this world that we just have no clue. And it's kind of... [2:18:28] Weird. [2:18:29] And I just don't know the variety that I'm bringing to the combo, but I'm just saying it just to say it. But it's different. Just like social media, you can meet so many people and just go into random places and meeting people. And you can get roped up in the wrong things. And it's just the downhill starts. Yep. You take a bad turn. And next thing you know, you're on a bad road. And you keep going. Eventually, I'm going to get out of this game. You can't. No. Then you're in jail or you're dead. Yeah.

[2:18:56] Ed Calderon is a guy who's been on this podcast many times. He used to work for the Mexican military. Now he's an American citizen, but he's a cartel expert. And the stories that he's told us about the fucking cartel and the amount of money they have. I mean, they essentially, they have giant military operations. It's all cartel. And they go to war with each other. It's crazy. Is it Pablo Escobar that had the money in the walls? [2:19:22] Of his house? I mean probably. I don't know. Or who died and he buried it all over in different places? I'm sure they all do that. I'm sure Escobar did that. I think they all do that. They have so much money. That was one of the things of cocaine cowboys was this pilot. They had millions of dollars buried in his backyard. He would just take garbage bags, fill it with millions of dollars of cash, dig a big hole in the backyard, and bury it there because he couldn't bring it into a bank. [2:19:47] Why not just give it away? Oh, fuck, give it away. Because they're doing coke and they want more money. They just don't know what to do with it. And they can't just have it all laying around their house and someone will break into their house and kill them and take their money. It's like then it's over with. [2:19:59] It is a crazy game, but I can't recommend that documentary enough, Cocaine Cowboys. Cocaine Cowboys. You watch it. You go, what the fuck? Where's the stream at? It's probably on everywhere. [2:20:10] Um... [2:20:11] Where is Cocaine Cowboys? Can you get it? It sounds like Amazon. I'm sure it's on everything. It might even be on Netflix. But it's incredible because you realize like, wow, like cocaine built Miami. Miami had more banks per capita. I don't know if it still does, but at one point in time, more banks per capita than any other city in the country. And it's because those banks were laundering money.

[2:20:32] Damn. They were laundering cocaine money. It was all coming in. [2:20:35] And Miami never sleeps either. So it was all night affair. [2:20:39] Yeah, that is a crazy fucking town. That is not a good town if you want to be a fighter and live like a low-key disciplined life. [2:20:48] You can all of a sudden you're here and you end up here and then all of a sudden it's 8 a.m. Right. Right. [2:20:52] You're at the beach at 12. Uh-huh. Can't be right. No. Can't be right. That's a dark hole that a lot of people should not be in. But how do you get out, though? [2:21:00] I don't know. Ask John. I mean, he seems to have navigated those waters better than anybody, you know, because usually it ruins everything in your life. He's obviously had some missteps, but still comes out the greatest. [2:21:13] You know, which is not everybody's path, you know, but obviously John is smart in that he spends a lot of time doing the things that he wants to do. Spends a lot of time training his dog, doing, you know, tactical stuff. He's always shooting guns and training and, you know, you got to have things outside of that life, you know, that you enjoy other than just partying. Yeah, you got to have fun. [2:21:37] You've got to have some type of gap. Some release. Yeah, and he's got a good release, and he's got a good mentality of, [2:21:43] of what the release should be and how it should go and, and where he needs to go with it. And then, [2:21:47] I mean, I've been with them [2:21:48] Now, since we have this close connection, I've been with them to places and [2:21:53] He's always kept me on a straight path, which is really, really nice. A lot of people that may have liked to take shots or like to do something like that, there's always a little, man, do you want one? Right. But there's never been a time where he's like,

[2:22:07] Man, I think you should try. And it's great because as an older, as a younger kid that's coming up, he sees the potential potential. [2:22:14] And that's all that matters. And I just need someone to see it. And, man, he's been great with it for sure. Yeah. When you're around a bunch of people that party and they drag you into that world, it's so easy for people to get hooked. It's so easy for people to just get roped into that lifestyle because people essentially, for the most part, imitate their atmosphere. Yeah. [2:22:31] And if you're around that kind of an atmosphere – [2:22:34] Those are the type of people that you're with and those are the type of thrills that they're seeking. You can get caught up in that. And it's the bane of every fighter's existence is women and partying. Yeah. He's always been like, hey, you got to stay clean. Go home. And that's been the best part about it. That's great, man. That is fucking great. So what is the timeline right now? Have you signed a deal with the UFC? I know they're talking to you. What's going on? They've reached out many times, but I told them just I'm kind of on the lines of right now. [2:23:04] girl to give... My baby girl to give [2:23:07] to come out [2:23:08] Um, so January is kind of a dead month for me. Um, but are you signed with the UFC? No, no, I'm not, I'm not signing anybody. But have they offered you a fight yet? Um, [2:23:16] Yeah, they've reached out about a couple of things, but no one specific. They just offer dates. Do you want to have fights in other organizations first? One of the problems with a guy like you is that you're so talented that you could have one, two fights in the UFC and all of a sudden be fighting a top contender. [2:23:31] You know, which I think you would do well. Yeah, I would like to. But if I was a manager of like a boxer and a guy with your potential, I would do what Custamato did with Mike Tyson. You have him fight a bunch of different guys like you did with Dirty Boxing, small organization MMA fights, build up those skills, get a lot of experience while you're constantly training and growing and getting better. And then once you enter into the UFC, you're essentially already the champion. There's just nobody knows it yet. I would really like to debut at the White House.

[2:24:00] debut. I would like to debut at the White House. I would like to do... [2:24:04] I would like to do one or two more fights before then. [2:24:07] And then... [2:24:09] If I can sign, do a big release. Hey, he signed. Good job. [2:24:12] And then... [2:24:13] debuted at the White House. That's my perfect world. Is it hard to get fights right now? [2:24:18] Um... [2:24:19] Maybe a little bit. I don't ask. I just say yes and then just keep moving. I kind of leave it up to John to kind of watch the people and all the coaches to kind of watch and see. [2:24:29] see what goes on but [2:24:30] I mean, if a guy says no, there's no hard feelings. I mean, just keep it pushing, and hopefully I can get to the guy that says yes. [2:24:35] That's the problem is that when a guy gets so much hype around him, there's a lot of guys who want to eventually be a world champion and go, I'm not ready for this guy yet. [2:24:46] You know, it's like even good guys are still like, ah, this guy's not. [2:24:51] He's on another level right now. But if they do think that, just whenever you think you are ready, I will be there. [2:24:58] Waiting. [2:24:59] that's terrifying I will be there waiting that's terrifying a lot of people heard that like I don't want to wait I don't want to wait [2:25:09] But also the smart move might be to get a hold of you now before you get better. You can try now, too. [2:25:19] But you know what I'm saying? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I mean, like, pick your poison. Yeah. [2:25:23] I mean, like I said, dirty boxing and that last fight in November with that double leg, that's the worst I'll ever be. [2:25:29] And it's kind of neat to repeat that to the world to kind of let them get a refresher.

[2:25:34] the worst Gable Stiefson will be. And the best is when he'll come back his next time. But after that. [2:25:38] That's the last worst I'll ever be after that. [2:25:41] Do you have a blueprint, like a map of what you'd like to accomplish in your career? [2:25:46] Yes. Long term? Yeah, long term I'd like to be champion, UFC champion. [2:25:51] I think Stipe has five defenses, if I'm not mistaken. [2:25:55] I would like to do... [2:25:57] try to beat that record if I can. [2:26:00] And if I can't die trying, you know, I would like to. I played in the NFL. I won the Olympics. [2:26:06] I would just like to be just an overall good man. [2:26:09] A lot of people want to look at, like we just talked about, a lot of people want to look at the success, the money. I just want to be an excellent man. I want to look back and be like, damn, Gable did that. [2:26:20] And I saw Dana White. He had a picture. And he said, let your last name be the reason that people remember you. [2:26:26] And I want the Stevenson last name to be something that people remember. And I want them to look at me and be like, damn, like through the peaks and valleys, Gable stood up and he became someone his life. And he provided for his family and he went home healthy and. [2:26:37] um, [2:26:38] And that's what I want. [2:26:40] The championship's going to come. [2:26:42] But... [2:26:42] I feel like a lot of people are so obsessed with I got to do this, but I'm obsessed with being the best version of Gable because if I'm the best version of Gable, you're not going to be able to beat me. [2:26:51] Keep that mindset and you will accomplish these things, my man. Man, I appreciate it. I believe it. Well, I appreciate it. Thank you very much for being here. Yes, you're right. It's a pleasure. Thank you. And I can't wait to see you fight in the UFC. Man, I can't wait either. It's going to be fun. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Bye, everybody. [2:27:03] Thank you.

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