#2416 - Dan Farah

[00:01] Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! [00:13] What's up, Jack? How are you? Good to see you. Good, good to see you, man. Good to see you again. First time I saw you was the first time I saw your documentary, which is fucking excellent. Thank you, bro. The Age of Disclosure, really good. Can't recommend it enough. [00:30] like this is bullshit maybe it's real this is bullshit maybe i'm wasting my time maybe it's real maybe it's [00:35] Go see the Age of Disclosure, and then you'll be fully in the I don't fucking know, but something's going on. That's where I am right now. I don't know, but something's going on. Definitely something going on. It's a real situation. Yeah, it's a real weird one. When you see all these high-level government employees talking about secret access programs and back engineering programs that have been going on for decades and decades in secrecy, and you're like – [01:01] Your documentary did a fantastic job of highlighting a couple of reasons why I always when people are skeptical and they go, OK, if there was a program like this, why wouldn't they just tell us? [01:12] you have to really understand [01:15] the consequences of what they've done. Because what they've done is lied to Congress for a long time. It's misappropriation of funds. [01:22] Clear felonies. Lie to the public. Lie to Congress. Lie to sitting presidents. Just the money stuff. And also, let's just be really –

[01:32] Let's be just honest about human nature. [01:35] complete access to enormous amounts of money that's not... [01:40] under any oversight at all. For sure, some of it went in the pockets of people that probably shouldn't have got it. [01:48] A hundred percent. I think it's safe to say. A hundred percent. It has to. Everyone I've talked to who's aware of the details of the Deeply Hidden Legacy program says that it's at least over a trillion dollars spent since the 40s. Oh, my God. It's an enormous amount of money. Oh, my God. And it's a much bigger program than people. [02:03] people [02:04] Would suspect. You're fucking thousands of people, full-time jobs, then going home to their families, the guy sitting next to your kid's Little League baseball game. You know, normal people on the outside are involved in this deeply hidden program. It's bonkers. And the idea – this is another thing that drives me nuts – the idea that people can't keep secrets – [02:22] Shut the fuck up. No. Yes, they can. If you're told your reputation... Some people, some people can't keep secrets. Yeah. But by the time you get to be a high-level operative in the United States government, I'm guessing you can keep a fucking secret. Yeah. And if you're told... Yeah. Hey, you can just disappear one day. Right. Or you can have your reputation ruined. Right. You're going to get blackmailed about this or that. You're just going to keep quiet. Yeah. People can keep secrets. And by the way, not everybody does. No. The Bob Lazar story to this day... [02:50] is like that documentary by Jeremy Corbell was the reason why I went all the way back in with UFOs. I'm like, all right, goddammit, I believe Bob. It's a great talk. [03:01] And that one's available. It's Bob Lazar, Area 51, and Flying Saucers. Is that...

[03:07] The name of it? The title of it? Something along those lines? Fantastic documentary. For me, like, look, my childhood was the 80s and early 90s. I grew up on movies like E.T. and Close Encounters and TV shows like X-Files and movies like Fire in the Sky. I remember that movie. Oh, yeah. I had Travis in here. [03:21] Yeah, you did. I love that interview. Fantastic. That movie gave me nightmares. Crazy. Kept me up as a kid. A couple of those guys on that crew hated him. Like one of them he got in a fist fight with that day. Yeah. And that guy had the exact same story that everybody else had. He got hit by a beam of light. They went back to get him. He was gone. He was gone. [03:38] Then five days later, he shows up. He's not malnourished. He's not like – he hasn't been sleeping in the woods. It's crazy. And he's got this fucking insane story about being repaired on a UFO. Yeah, and all those guys passed lie detector tests. Yes, all of them did. [03:54] You know, like movies like that, I'm sure for millions of people around the world, same thing. It just made me curious about this, you know? Yeah. My whole life, I'm like... [04:01] are we alone in the universe? Does the U.S. government know more about this than we do, right? And I always wish that there was a documentary... [04:07] that only interviewed people who have direct knowledge of the topic as a result of work for the government. And that was that was the real drive of making this film. Everybody fits that criteria. Here's the fear that everyone has, including myself. And it is the way this. This is the main fear that I have whenever I sit down with any whistleblower. How many of them are? [04:27] Thank you. [04:28] on purpose [04:29] That their directive, that their objective is to spread misinformation on purpose, on behalf of the government. That they're there to just bullshit you. Yeah, of course I had that thought.

[04:41] For me... [04:43] I stopped worrying about that when... [04:45] Thank you. [04:46] I met [04:47] One intelligence official, government official, military official after another who had completely different ideological views, different political beliefs. They weren't associated with each other. And they were all saying the same thing. [05:00] I just don't – the alternative to everything these people are saying in my film being true is that 34 people – [05:07] of different political parties, [05:09] different government groups. [05:11] with different aspirations all got together four years ago and decided to tell this elaborate lie. [05:16] randomly with me. [05:18] in a movie and [05:20] For what end? It doesn't make any sense. Well, there is a couple ends, right? [05:24] One of them could be they're being told to do this because – [05:29] This is a real thing, but it's different than what they're saying, and they're trying to get one narrative out there. [05:36] Well, let's imagine that there's a current coordinated effort with the United States government and some sort of alien intelligence. [05:46] Wouldn't it behoove you to make it more of a mystery? Like we've been trying, we've been, we have found things, but we don't know what they are. We're back engineering, but we don't know much. Meanwhile, they know way more. Well, yeah, look. That's just one scenario. That could be a scenario. But in this case, you have people who, like Rubio, who found out what's going on. Right. Who think it is very urgent that the public get caught up and find out the base facts. Yeah. His biggest fear is…

[06:13] clearly is we are in a high stakes technology race, a cold war race with adversarial nations like China to reverse engineer technology of non-human origin. And his fear, he literally says in the film is that if we don't get our act together and take this more seriously as a country, we're going to wake up one day. We're going to find out the hard way that China got there. We won't know when or how, but to quote him, we will be screwed. And he, you could feel it. Like I did all the interviews myself. I'm like this close to him. It's chin buckled. When he said it, he was, [06:41] dead serious and he was super concerned and you could feel it and that was the vibe with senator rounds senator gillibrand jim clapper guys never [06:50] talked about this topic in his life is in his 80s. He was the head of Air Force Intelligence. He was the director of National Intelligence. [06:56] Never publicly spoken about UAP. [06:58] He goes on – he comes out and does the interview, and he told me – [07:02] He told me that he was doing it because it was important to do and that the people needed to know. And he drops the bomb in the film that UAP activity over Air 51 is real. It's in fact real. And he goes on the record saying that the Air Force has had a program to investigate this stuff, whereas the Air Force is saying they haven't had a program since Project Blue Book. So I think the people – [07:23] that I interviewed. [07:24] really felt like a weight on their shoulders to get this off their chest. [07:28] And to give you more context on Clapper, the poor guy's wife was in the hospital and died. [07:32] He left the hospital to come do the interview. [07:35] And I actually said to him, I was like, are you sure you want to do this today? And he's like, no, I want to do it. It's important. Wow. [07:40] Like... [07:41] I think I really felt it. [07:43] These people all felt like the public needed to know the base facts that they could lawfully disclose. And to me, the more wild thing is if what they reveal in this film, the fact that –

[07:52] there's been an 80-year cover-up of Non-Human Intelligent Life, that we're in a secret high-stakes race with... [07:56] adversarial nations, if that's what they can lawfully disclose, [08:00] Dude, what's on the other side of that line? What's the stuff they can't disclose? You know? Yeah. Um... [08:06] When you're talking to these people... [08:08] How many of them have had personal experiences that they either can or cannot talk about? How many of them – has anyone had some sort of personal experience with either a craft or seen something? [08:22] This summer, the Cup is taking over the U.S., and only DraftKings has you covered every step of the way. Follow every group stage upset, every knockout round thriller, every stoppage time moment that flips the whole tournament. Sweat all the big matches you love in real time with a seamless experience built for the world's biggest stage. No matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in the game with one app. [08:52] up with code rogan spend five bucks to get 200 in rewards within 21 days that's code rogan in partnership with draft kings the crown is yours if you or someone you know has a gambling problem crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER 21 and over illinois only eligibility restrictions apply bonus bets expire seven days after issuance for additional terms and responsible gaming resources cdkng.co slash audio limited time offer [09:20] This episode is brought to you by Traeger Grills. If you enjoy food, and I mean really good food, Traeger is a game changer. This isn't just a grill. It's the ultimate way to cook outdoors, delivering unbeatable wood-fired flavor thanks to the all-natural hardwood pellets that fuel everything you grill, smoke, or bake. That's it. Just wood and fire and flavor. And what's truly wild is how easy it is.

[09:50] handle the rest. Grilled steaks, smoked ribs, even baked pizza, all on one grill. If you're into fire, flavor, and doing things right, check out Traeger Grills. [10:01] Let's talk about Service Titan, the AI for the trades. The trades are the backbone of this country. And for the first time, they've got technology that actually matches the work. Over 10,000 contractors already use Service Titan software to run their businesses. Built by two guys whose dads were in the trades, this isn't some tech company guessing at solutions. [10:31] Generic Internet data. This is AI designed specifically for contracting work. HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and more. It's booking calls while you sleep, dispatching your texts, helping you run your back office, growing your revenue. One platform, fully automated, always learning, always improving. Every other industry is still trying to figure out AI. The trades are about to lead from the front. Service Titan, the AI for the trades. [11:01] It's servicetitan.ai. Something. Yeah. Yeah. So. That they couldn't talk about? Yeah. [11:08] There were some scenarios that they couldn't talk about, and then there were some scenarios they could talk about. [11:15] But yes, Jay Stratton, for example, who ran the U.S. government's UEP task force, he was the director of the UEP task force. He co-founded OSAP with Jim Lekaski, which grew into ATIP.

[11:28] he has seen with his own eyes, non-human craft and non-human beings. [11:34] Some situations that he can't talk about, some situations that he can. And I know he intends to talk about those in the very near future. [11:43] Yeah, I've talked to him. [11:45] Um, [11:46] So... [11:47] Is that the only one that saw a non-human being that you talked to? [11:53] No. [11:53] Talk to some... [11:54] couple people who have. And were they similar stories? They were similar stories. They... [12:01] They described... [12:03] the beings looking... [12:05] the reference point they gave me was... [12:08] very similar to the beings depicted in Close Encounters. [12:12] That is the description they used? Yeah. [12:16] Thank you. [12:17] Thank you. [12:18] in terms of the crafts, [12:20] one of the interviews in the film... [12:22] that I'm really proud of, um, an air force security guard who worked at Vanderburgh air force base, who's never gone public. Um, [12:31] Witnessed with his own eyes, along with five other security forces members, a giant UAP the size of a football field. [12:38] that came over Vanderburgh Air Force Base. [12:41] hovered over them, and then shot off at thousands of miles an hour. [12:44] And he went on the record on camera. [12:47] He's never talked about it publicly. He's never pursued press or, you know. [12:50] try to [12:51] do anything with this experience right and he broke his silence in this film because he thought it was [12:56] Really important that the world know the truth. Did you ask him if there's any footage? I would imagine Vanderbilt has some pretty tight security. Yeah, he thinks that there is...

[13:03] security camera footage of this. [13:06] But he's never seen it. He's never seen it, no. [13:08] Good Lord, people. Him and five other guys saw it with their own eyes. They all reported it. There's official Air Force... [13:15] Police blogger reports of it. I got a hold of the police report. We put it on screen in the film. That's what drives me crazy. All this could be cleared up if they released whatever high-resolution security camera footage they have. I would imagine they have top-notch security camera footage around the camera. [13:31] Major military facilities. Yeah. Right? That's one of the hurdles we have to get past. We have to start declassifying. It's just like that shouldn't be yours. That should be the United States government has an obligation to give that to the people of the world. That's what that should be. If you have footage of a fucking UFO, a real one. [13:52] Yeah. And you really have a video of it going thousands of miles an hour just disappearing into the sky? Yeah, 100%. I mean, I don't think... [14:00] Any government or organization or religion, anyone should be able to gatekeep these fundamental facts. I know, but the problem is until you see it, it's just talk. If you saw it and you know the chain of command, where it came from, or chain of custody rather, where it came from, it hasn't been molested, have analysts tested, it's not AI, it's not bullshit, it's not edited. Okay, what is it? Yeah. And then we can talk.

[14:30] the very kind of grainy, weird TikTok footage. It's hard to tell what it is because you're looking at it from the instrumentation of the fighter jets. Yeah, but there is also other... [14:40] There is also other... [14:43] data on the Tic Tac incident that's classified [14:45] that shows this is a real object that was really there. Jamie, show me something. What are you showing me, Jamie? This is Ryan Graves talking about the big red UFO that hovered over Vandenberg in 2003. Yeah, so that happened in the afternoon, and then that night. [15:00] this giant craft came over the base that is revealed in my film. So it says right here, the executive director of the Graves, who's been on the podcast for. Yeah, Ryan Graves is awesome. Citing occurred around 8.45 a.m., followed by a second sighting only hours later. He said witnesses provided him with information about the mysterious incidents as they held on to official documentation records from the event over the years. Yeah, and so later that night, there was another. [15:30] including some aggressive behaviors. These objects were approaching some of the security guards at rapid speeds before darting off. [15:39] Like Close Encounters. Like literally like the movie. Yeah. I just wonder how much Steven Spielberg, I love to talk to him about that, how much he dove into it before he made that film. Because, you know, he had the Jacques Vallée character, that French scientist. I think he learned a lot in the 70s. People forget he also wrote Poltergeist. Right. Right. [15:57] This guy knew what was going on early on. But put yourself in the shoes of those security guards at Vanderburg. Can you imagine just being a normal guy? You work in your security shift. You look up, and there's something the size of a football field over you. Hovering silently. No windows. It's fucking terrifying, and it's crazy. And he says we did a New York City premiere interview.

[16:17] couple nights ago, Tuesday night. We did it on the Intrepid aircraft carrier. It was awesome. And Fravor and Graves came, which is great to be on an aircraft carrier with Fravor and Graves. That's awesome. [16:26] Thank you. [16:27] Fravor loved it. He's like, I'm back on a carrier, baby. It was classic. [16:33] The witness from Vanderburg came. [16:35] And we did a little talk after for the audience, and he said it changed his life. [16:39] He just completely looks at everything differently. Oh, how could it not? Yeah. How could it not? [16:43] Yeah, I mean, if you see something like that. Totally humbling and also... Yeah. [16:47] you know, eye opening. There's several people in the film military. [16:52] military guys who talk about what they experienced and saw on military bases, especially nuclear bases, which is – [17:02] goes back to one of the biggest concerns. [17:04] the leaders in my film have... [17:07] Almost all the activities over on nuclear weapons sites... [17:10] And military bases... [17:12] our defense capabilities, [17:14] N-R. [17:15] nuclear progress essentially are being monitored and why is that [17:20] Because it's dangerous as fuck. Yeah. Because as Terrence McKenna described us, we're territorial people. [17:25] apes with thermonuclear weapons. It's a ridiculous position. Yeah, and so that's clear to me too. [17:33] Then you think about, okay, well, where does all this go? It comes to a crossroads, right? [17:37] Like, [17:38] They've been here a long time. They've been monitoring us a long time. But now we've evolved to be dangerous. [17:43] and we're either at [17:45] through secret programs their level or we're about to be. And then that's when you get to a crossroad. So I,

[17:51] I think that's one of the things driving officials like Rubio and Rounds and Gillibrand and [17:56] Jay Stratt and, um, [17:58] to come out. [17:59] and say what they legally can, because it's a set of circumstances that the human population really needs to know about. [18:05] And then it's become a humanitarian issue. How do we deal with this? Right. And what is it? Right. What is their purpose? If they are real, are they here to help us? Are they monitoring us? One of the creepiest things that Bob Lazar said is that they look at us like containers. Right. [18:20] Yeah, I mean... And I was like, what does that mean? Like, containers of souls is what I interpreted from it, but that's just me. But, like, what does that mean? Containers. Like, like... [18:31] Thank you. [18:31] It seems like human beings have an insatiable desire to innovate and create better technology. And that seems to be leading us into AI and seems to be leading us into probably what connects us with the rest of the universe, the rest of the intelligence of the universe. But the stuff that got us here is being these territorial apes. That's why we developed cities and that's why we developed agriculture. [19:01] free time to innovate. We had enough free time to invent things and change things. [19:06] Our nature is really what holds us back because we're still constantly warring. It hasn't changed at all. No, it's crazy that we're still threatening nuclear war 80 years after dropping the bomb on Japan. We're still invading sovereign nations. We're involved in a proxy war. We're helping Israel. It's like there's so much chaos and death going on in the world because of human beings and the decisions that they're making that if I was an intelligent life species from somewhere else, I'd be very concerned. Yeah, I'd be like here's this group of monkeys on a trajectory.

[19:36] They're about to make a digital god. They're real close to having super intelligence in digital form. And these idiots are still blowing themselves up from the sky. [19:47] is why... [19:49] one of the current dilemmas exists, right? So this technology exists. [19:53] Private defense contractors have this technology. Elements of the government have this technology. You're convinced. Beyond convinced. And what do you think that technology consists of? [20:03] I have been completely convinced by... [20:06] multiple members of the intelligence community, the military, senior leaders in government, people who are running the Senate Armed Services Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, [20:15] Someone who sits on the White House National Security Council that our country has recovered dozens, dozens of crashed craft of non-human origin and done so since the 40s. And there has been success for reverse engineering elements of this technology. And the same thing has been happening in China and Russia. And it's a very real situation. It's a high-stakes situation. It is referred to as the atomic race on steroids. [20:40] And [20:41] I am completely convinced of that. And the and the contractors that the defense contractors, the people like Jay Stratton and Louis Zondo and people on the Senate Intel Committee have told me are involved are Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Battelle. [20:57] big companies. [21:00] That... [21:01] have a lot of resources and... [21:04] are advancing this technology, but it's all so classified and so deeply hidden that it hinders progress. And the fear that if this technology got out, it'd be used...

[21:16] by bad actors to create weapons of mass destruction has sort of prevented the scientific progress that could be better for mankind, that could be good for mankind. Like this technology, to quote Hal Pudoff in the film, he says – [21:29] This is the key to interstellar travel. This is the key to exploring the galaxy. This is the key to things that sound like science fiction, like teleportation. All these things that could just revolutionize humanity and the trajectory of our species are being... [21:44] held back out of the fear that the technology will be used for evil. Right. And so, you know, [21:52] I love Hal Pudov. I got very close with him. [21:55] Fascinating guy. Fascinating guy. He's the most interesting person I've ever met in my life. [22:00] He makes a great point. [22:02] In the film of saying... [22:03] He believes, despite the risks this technology could be used for bad, he believes we should – [22:10] make it known and make it a humanitarian issue of how we all collectively go about safely using this technology and, [22:17] to change the world for the better and avoid... [22:19] And we've done that. We have a blueprint for that with nuclear technology, right? Like, there are nuclear weapons. That stuff's classified. [22:27] We wish they didn't exist, but it does exist. And then we also use nuclear energy for good. [22:32] Yeah, um... [22:33] The question would be, [22:36] Thank you. [22:37] If we're holding back because we're worried that bad actors are going to get it, is China taking the same approach? Because I would imagine they're not. They're not. I would imagine they're full bore, full steam ahead. Yeah, and that's one of the problems. That's the same thing with a lot of other technology, right? Oh, yeah. Rubio and Rounds and Gillibrand.

[22:55] three of the most senior leaders in our government talk very openly about [23:01] their concern... [23:03] about China. [23:04] and them getting ahead of us on reverse entering this technology. Rubio says it keeps them up at night. [23:08] Rounds very animatedly says in the film, do you think for one second? [23:14] that they wouldn't use this technology for their domination if they didn't think we would. [23:21] had access to the same technology. How is everybody getting these crashed UFOs? What's the story behind that? So here's an interesting thing. [23:30] One of the unexpected things I learned in talking to sources, like real credible people, is that [23:37] Some of the crashes were actual crashes, were just... [23:42] you know [23:43] crashes happen, just like they do. You can drive as safe as possible, fly as safe as possible, crashes are going to happen. But... [23:48] some of them, [23:50] were actually caused by elements of our military intelligence community and elements of foreign military intelligence community, community people. So like, [24:00] One of the realizations early on was that... [24:04] atomic weapon test, nuclear weapon testing, atomic weapon testing. [24:08] has a ripple effect that [24:10] can down these things. Especially high altitude. [24:14] nuclear testing which is one of the things that they did in the 1950s in particular yeah and so they started doing it yeah to like shoot fish in a barrel basically they did it on purpose yeah and so that's why they were doing it yeah and then russia russia started doing it yeah and then one of the it's like throwing dynamite into the river it's like fishing with dynamite yeah yeah fishing with dynamite oh my god and then so crazy which is crazy on multiple levels

[24:37] A, you could accidentally provoke a nuclear conflict with another party that doesn't know what you're doing. B, you could... [24:44] you're, you know, [24:45] You're picking a fight with a more intelligent, superior... [24:49] Species, right? Which is probably not going to work out great for anybody. They probably couldn't believe we were using nukes in the sky. These fucking idiots. [24:59] Nuked some of our spaceships. And the ocean. [25:01] Yeah, we nuked the ocean a ton of times, right? Yeah, and there's a ton of UA-pectivity in the ocean. Right. That's something that Tim Burchett recently talked about. Did you see that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've talked off the record with admirals and subcommanders and been told that these giant football-sized crafts that were seen over Vanderburg, for example, have been seen under the ocean. [25:22] - Whoa. - Moving at crazy speeds. [25:24] tracked by our subs. Yeah, they said there was one story of one that was the size of a football field that was going 500 knots. Yeah. Underwater with no ripples. Yeah. [25:33] So it starts to make you think, like, not only was Spielberg tipped off early on, but maybe James Cameron was, too. Maybe the abyss is a lot closer to reality than we ever thought. Well, there was always stories about things coming from the ocean. And there was always stories of people that lived in, like, the Pacific, like on the coast, of seeing things come out of the ocean, particularly somewhere around San Diego. There's always stories around San Diego. There's a hot spot there, yeah. Congressman Carson, Andre Carson, who's on the House... [25:58] Intelligence Committee and on the House Committee for the CIA. He goes on the record in the film saying that [26:05] these UAP that come out of the ocean...

[26:08] are otherworldly things. He says they are not [26:11] Man-made aircraft? They're not. [26:12] um, [26:13] rockets, these are otherworldly things, he says. And that's a significant... That was a significant moment for me when he went on the record and said that. And I think it's... [26:24] Going back to the nuclear stuff, it's scary to think that... [26:29] Anyone thought it was a good idea. [26:31] to intentionally take down [26:33] the aircraft of a more intelligent species. Yeah. It seems like a very foolish decision. Well, if that's true. Yeah. I know that there was a lot of high-altitude nuclear bomb testing for whatever reason. There was that Operation Midnight Prime. Is that what it was? No. Starfish Prime, where they were blowing holes through the Van Allen radiation belts. They were just launching nuclear bombs into space. Well, I'll tell you something that I don't think people know about, but – [27:00] the UAP task force, which Jay Stratton ran, [27:03] um [27:04] they put in place a [27:06] based on that data of... [27:08] you know, the connection went nukes. They put together a plan... [27:12] to lure in [27:13] UAP, [27:15] with [27:16] nuclear elements. So... [27:18] nuclear aircraft carrier with some nuclear weapons on it. [27:22] And they had all these data collection systems in place. [27:25] And it worked. Whoa. So they, like... [27:28] Without causing... [27:31] without doing a test. [27:33] Just the fact that they had nuclear weapons. Just the fact that it existed and was being put into place, it attracted. And they caught a lot of data on it. Whoa. And, you know, we shouldn't think that that was the only time they did that. Well, I would imagine, you know, they probably saw the testing, the stupid shit we did in the ocean. Yeah. The fact that, like, we were talking about this last night.

[27:53] John Wayne did a terrible movie called Genghis Khan. I don't know if you ever saw it. Yeah, yeah, I saw it. It's one of the worst movies of all time. [28:00] And that's what killed him. That movie killed him. He got cancer from that movie. And so did almost like – I think it was like close to 100 people on the set. Some very large number of people on the set got cancer because they did this all downwind from where the government was detonating nuclear bombs. They filmed it all in Nevada in the desert. Horrible. Horrible. So like they blew up. I'm sure you've seen the video of the – where it shows like a time lapse of all the nuclear tests over the years. And you just go, yo, what are you doing? Yeah. [28:30] What are you doing in Nevada? Nevada just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. [28:35] And if I was from another planet, I'd be like, that's when I would start going, oh, my God, these idiots, not only do they have it, but they're just blowing them up in the ocean. Yeah. No consideration for the fish, the whales, the dolphins, whatever the fuck happens to be there when they drop that thing down. Like, they're clearly irresponsible. Yeah. Yeah. [28:53] Yeah, no, it's concerning. An analogy that [28:56] Multiple people actually use with me. [28:58] They said, put yourself in the shoes of advanced non-human intelligence species. Here's the analogy. Imagine you're a zookeeper, and you see this gorilla in a cage. [29:08] You love this, Carilla. [29:09] It's sweet. You watch it evolve over the years. You see it communicate. It waves to you. You have no issue with this gorilla. You don't wish it any harm. But what happens if one day you come in and the other security guards say, hey, last night the gorilla got out of his cage? [29:23] walked around the park,

[29:24] was playing with the gun cabinet, and then he went back in his cage. You're like, all right. [29:28] That's concerning. Let me keep an eye on this, right? And then what happens if, you know, a month later you come in and they're like, hey, the gorilla... [29:36] This time he got in the gun cage. [29:37] He was playing with the gun. [29:39] And then he went back in his cage with the gun. What do we do here, right? Well, it's even worse than that. So it's like we'll take the gun out of his hand. We'll put it back. We'll change the locking and stuff, right? But then what happens if it evolves to a place where sometime later you come out of your house on a Sunday. You're not even going to work. You've got your daughter's hand in your hand. And the gorilla is standing on your front lawn with a shotgun. [29:58] then you've got to make a choice really quick, right? Like, do I just take this thing out? [30:02] Or do I try to communicate with it and risk my daughter getting shot? [30:05] Yeah. [30:05] And this analogy has been used with me multiple times to describe [30:09] the dynamic we have with non-human intelligent life and the situation we're barreling towards. Yeah. It would almost be like you went to the cage and the grill was welding. [30:16] the grill's got gongs on he's making a bore he's putting together a shotgun he's figuring out dynamite on his cleanings yeah that would be the real issue like oh my god they figured out guns [30:28] The thing is, we figured it out. It's not like somebody gave it to us. Look, a couple of people in the film reveal that some of the UAP activity we see... [30:37] is non-human intelligent life, but some of it is reverse-engineered craft from our program, the legacy program, and some from adversaries. So I personally think we have cracked... [30:48] this technology a lot more than people realize. I don't think you spend over a trillion dollars and have thousands of people working on a deeply hidden program every year for 80 years and not make progress.

[31:01] Yeah, God, I would love to know what it is that they've done and whether the Tic Tac is one of ours. [31:06] I don't think it is. No? No. I talked to everybody who actually ran the investigation of Tic Tac from various agencies and to the pilots. No one thinks it's man-made. [31:17] And also, if it was man-made, that would mean that someone cracked... [31:23] A new energy source. [31:25] That far back, which is like, what, 20 years at this point? Mm-hmm. [31:29] End. [31:30] has never used it, [31:32] to benefit [31:33] our country or another country. [31:35] to solve the energy crisis, to make a superior craft that we've seen used. It's just hard to believe that no one would use that to, like, fuel their economy. I mean, it'd be like a total, you know, restart of everything if you had that technology. Right. Right. [31:50] Yeah, that's interesting, right? [31:52] I mean, that Tic Tac was going from... [31:56] sea level to 80,000 feet. [31:59] which is space. [32:00] And hovering... [32:02] in space, going back down, hovering at sea level, and doing this for hours. We don't have anything. One of the scientists who was involved in one of the UAP programs for the government in my film [32:12] does the math and says the... [32:15] energy required to do that. [32:17] Is the electrical output of the entire United States for, you said a week, some stupid amount of energy required? I think it's even more than a week. But, yeah, I remember him saying that. [32:27] it's bonkers. And that's just the trip up. Yeah, and they were doing that

[32:32] All day. All day. It's crazy. It's crazy. Right. If they had that in 2004, which is the Tic Tac incident, you would think there would be some just insane progress. Yeah. Yeah. [32:42] So if it's not ours... [32:44] What... [32:45] What is the predominant theory of what they are? [32:49] Thank you. [32:50] The predominant theory is that they is multiple species. [32:55] And there's no one answer. Everyone I talk to who has real visibility to the crash retrieval program says the non-human bodies that have been recovered in some of these crafts all look different. [33:05] There are multiple species. The universe is full of life. How many different species? I've heard of at least four body types that were recovered. So all I've heard of is the greys, which is like the close encounters of the third kind ones. The nordics, which is also known as like the tall whites, right? The same thing? I've heard people say, yeah. And then there is the reptilians. People talk about reptilians being the scariest one. No one's ever used that word with me, to be honest. Really? Yeah. And then there's mantis. [33:33] There's ones that are like insect-like. I've heard people say that, yeah. I haven't heard of any more than that. [33:39] Yeah, well... [33:41] I've also heard... [33:43] Multiple military people talk about little beings... [33:47] that almost looked like E.T. little... [33:50] little bots that don't seem sentient, that seem like... [33:55] They're almost like a robot. Yeah, like a robot almost, yeah. Some artificial creation? Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. You would imagine if you get to genetic engineering and when there's cyborgs and you integrate technology with this genetic engineering, you're going to be able to create like workers. Yeah. Like little – that's what many people have thought the greys are. Like there's small greys that are – they're more in like a workforce capacity. I've heard that.

[34:25] to be more intelligent. I've heard that. You know, one of the... [34:30] One of the really interesting things is that there's no one answer, right? Right. Some non-human intelligent life that's here might have... [34:37] benign intentions and some might have bad intentions. Right. We don't know. The other reason I am extremely convinced that this situation is entirely real is... [34:49] is... [34:51] The access I got when making the film was really at an unprecedented level. [34:56] I got very close with the leadership of the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Armed Services Committee. [35:01] They were introducing me to people. They were opening doors for me. And some of the people that I met through them... [35:08] Thank you. [35:09] were actually involved in [35:12] recovery programs and we're going to do interviews and then ultimately decided not to and that they thought, [35:19] they thought it would cost them their lives. Two people used... [35:22] the same words with me, actually. It was very interesting. Two people used the words... [35:27] After careful... [35:29] consideration [35:30] I've decided I would be forfeiting my life if I participated on camera in your film. The word forfeiting, which I had never heard anyone use in that kind of context, right? Just put yourself in my shoes. [35:40] normal guy from Jersey making a movie about something I'm interested in, the last thing I want to hear is something like that. [35:46] That's the most sure way to get people to keep secrets. Oh, yeah. [35:50] So I, of course, was like... [35:53] that's shocking and disappointing to hear. Obviously, we should stop talking. Yeah. I don't want you in this movie. Don't die. I do not want that on my conscience. But it also was another...

[36:04] Another sign of how real all this is. Without naming any names, is there anything that you couldn't talk about in the film that you could tell us? [36:13] without like quoting anybody or pinning it on anybody yeah i mean there's a lot of stuff i learned off the record um [36:22] Hopefully it all comes out and people can legally talk about it at some point. Can you talk about it? I know there's been multiple contact events. [36:30] Like straight up contact events. One of them is revealed in the film, actually, but there are more. [36:38] Several of the people in my film talk about an event that happened at Hallamann Air Force Base where... [36:42] Two non-human crafts. [36:44] Approached the base. One landed. [36:46] beings walked out and interacted with Air Force officials and CIA officials. A couple people go on the record talking about that in the film. [36:53] There have been other events, I've been told. How are those beings described? They were described as tall beings. [36:59] Slender humanoid. [37:01] And the... [37:03] Another thing that I heard that gave me chills was that... [37:08] Someone involved with a recovery... [37:12] um, [37:14] interacted with [37:15] a non-human being that was dying and [37:19] heard thoughts [37:21] in his head that said [37:24] you humans don't know your full potential. And that was said to me by a very senior, older guy from the intelligence community. And, um, [37:33] I thought that was pretty...

[37:35] pretty incredible. [37:38] Also, just the extent to which the Legacy program is real. It's not... [37:42] This isn't like 50 guys sitting in a quiet, dark room. You're talking about... [37:46] a massive program with thousands of people going to work every day and dealing with this. And to me, that is mind blowing, you know? [37:54] You know, the guy next to you at the pizza place on a Saturday night might be working on this during the day. [38:02] The other father at your kid's, like, you know, little league game. Yeah. This is what he deals with, right? The fact that that is a thing and – [38:09] You know, we had a similar dynamic for the Manhattan Project. There were all these people working on it, and they kept it secret, right? [38:15] And their neighbors and friends didn't know. But this is that on steroids. So, you know, after the Manhattan Project, which had a budget in the billions, this situation arose and... [38:24] And it had to be even more secret than the Manhattan Project because the Manhattan Project, we found out in hindsight, leaked, right? There were moles. Right. So we needed to make this even more secret and give it more money and more resources. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. [38:45] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it.

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[40:46] you know [40:47] Counter Intel. [40:49] And more threats. [40:50] Which is counterintel, yeah. Yeah, I mean, threats, if you reveal those secrets. But it's like more... [40:56] the more this stuff... [40:58] gets discussed, the more I go back to what Lazar said. [41:02] Because what Lazar is describing from the 1980s is exactly... [41:08] what these people are saying now. [41:10] They've had these things. They've been trying to figure them out. They've been working on them. At least in the 1980s, they hadn't totally cracked it yet. But they did know how to operate them and that they would do these tests. But everything was so compartmentalized. He said he wasn't allowed to talk to the metallurgist. There was different people that were assigned to it. [41:40] because whatever it was seemed like it was 3D printed. It didn't have any seams. Yeah. [41:44] And when he talks about it, it sounds exactly like what people are talking about today, which is really bananas. Yeah. Because this is late 1980s, and he's the first guy to crack through with this stuff. Yeah. Everything is so – in that secret program, everything is so siloed out. [42:01] where [42:02] you could have one team of defense contractors working on one thing. They're not even told it's from an alien spacecraft. They're just told, here's the thing. [42:08] It might be Russia. It might be China. Tell us how it works. Right. And they're just kept in a little bubble. [42:16] now is that...

[42:18] Everything's become so overclassified and so siloed that it's actually hurting progress. [42:24] And that's a lot of the scientists in my film. [42:27] are voicing that. And, you know, one of the other things I learned recently that isn't in the film, Jay Stratton, you know, who ran the UAP task force, he told me that, [42:36] during that time [42:39] He had started a talk with one of the senior scientists at [42:43] Lockheed [42:44] who was frustrated [42:46] by how overclassified everything was. It even made it hard for the defense contractors to get the right [42:53] manpower and brains on it. Because... [42:56] Not everyone can be cleared. [42:58] To do the work, right? There's all these like red tape hurdles to progress, right? And so they had made a plan to move one of the crafts that had been recovered that was in Lockheed's possession into the possession of the UAP task force. And then the task force was going to be able to put more brainpower towards it. And then... [43:17] the head of science and technology at the CIA shut it down. [43:20] in the middle of the transfer. They had actually secured [43:24] a hangar on a military base... [43:26] and prepped it. [43:27] to be a classified hangar that would hold this craft, and they were stopped. So the issue of overclassification – Did they know what happened after that? Yeah, the CIA shut the whole transaction down, and the craft stayed in Lockheed's possession. And then that particular – [43:44] leader within Lockheed died about two years later. Um, so the, the effort kind of stopped, um, cancer. Um, the, uh,

[43:53] the overclassification is definitely a hurdle. [43:55] for this. [43:57] And our competitors don't necessarily have that. There's no free will in China. She can just be like, hey, you're the smartest guy graduating your class. You're going to go work for the nation on this. Right, period. And here, the problem is no one knows it's real. One of the things I hope the film changes is it makes the scientific community know that this is a valid area of inquiry. This is real. [44:16] It's a real situation. And there's a ton of problems happening. [44:20] for the next generation. [44:22] of engineers and scientists to solve, you know? So hopefully it inspires them. [44:28] It helps us make progress because there's a lot of progress that could be made here. [44:32] Well, it certainly seems like it, but it's like how – one of the things that you guys propose in the film that I think may be the only way forward is some sort of a mass amnesty to all these people that did lie to Congress and probably misappropriated funds and maybe stolen a little bit here and there. If that doesn't happen, no one is going to push to make this public. No one is going to push for actual full disclosure. [44:57] Because it leaves them too exposed. And if they do have the kind of power that they must have to be running an organization of thousands of people working on something with unbelievable amounts of money being transferred to these programs – [45:10] They don't want to let that go. Yeah. Like this is like it's a honeypot that they're drawing from. Right. And they're probably still taking too much or it's there's no oversight. It's still you're still lying to Congress. [45:22] You'd have to –

[45:24] You'd have to have some national security amnesty program saying, look, in the interest of national security, it's critically important that we get all of our best people working on this. The only way we're ever going to really do that is to – [45:39] completely revealed that this is actual really... [45:42] This is actually really happening. This is real... [45:45] Crafts from somewhere or something we have them will tell you where we have them and let's I think right now People wouldn't even freak out because I would think that people would freak out and [45:58] If there was some sort of official narrative of disclosure, but that's sort of been breached, right? The New York Times breached that in 2017. I think this film is that I mean, this is 34 credible people set putting their reputation and name on the line, which which I honestly show I think it's more. [46:13] It's stronger evidence than any video or photo. These days, [46:16] You could put a 4K video of a giant craft over Vandenberg, and half the human population will say it's AI. Right. We're creating some visual effects program. But someone of note putting their name and reputation on the line... [46:29] their career on the line, the rest of their life's on the line to say, this is what I know to be true. To me, that's the greatest evidence that, that exists. But I do think to your point, [46:39] Amnesty is something that's going to have to be figured out because while it's hard, [46:45] for anyone to accept... [46:47] letting people off the hook, [46:49] for wrongdoings. [46:50] right? It is... [46:52] it does seem like it's in the best interest of the bigger picture. 100%. Because these people just aren't – they have no incentive to come forward with what they've learned. And so to quote Rubio in the film, he says, look, this is not –

[47:04] endeavor to go and punish anyone. [47:07] But we need to know what they learned. Right. And I think he's totally dead on. And, you know. Is he in favor of some sort of an amnesty program as well? Yeah. He says on camera in the film, he's like, I'm not trying to punish anyone. I need to know what they learned because taxpayers paid for this. And it's in our interest to know what's going on. But the other thing that's needed is – [47:29] real whistleblower protection. Not... not... [47:32] Not the whistleblower protection that's been passed so far. Like, [47:35] much stronger... [47:37] legal protection so that people like, you know, like the folks I talked to, the special forces guys I talked to, were going to come forward and then decided they thought to be forfeiting their lives. You've got to change that set of circumstances. You got to make those people feel... [47:50] Like that's not going to happen to them. Right. And and and what I think ultimately is going to have to happen. And I wouldn't be surprised, man, if it happens soon after the film comes out. I think a sitting president has to step to the microphone and say definitively humanity is not alone in the universe. [48:05] We have recovered technology of non-human origin. So have other nations. There is a high-stakes secret Cold War race to reverse engine this technology. We need to win this race, and the U.S. intends to lead in this new chapter. I think that needs to happen, like a level set. [48:19] of basic facts, and I really do think it will happen. Well, if that is going to happen, I think Trump might be the only guy that's willing to do something that crazy. I think it's very likely that he does that. I know that he is aware of the film. I know he's aware of what people in his administration say. Has he watched it? You know that? He has not watched the film.

[48:39] But I know he's very aware of it. And I know that... [48:44] they are discussing internally how they're going to react to the film publicly. And I also know that he has recently, very recently, recently, [48:54] Test. [48:55] Tulsi Gabbard with [48:57] Getting to the bottom of the situation and finding out for him what he needs to know that he doesn't know. Really? Yeah. And as Rubio said in the film. [49:04] Rubio says on camera, on the record, on the film, that this has been kept from sitting presidents. [49:10] And he goes into detail on how that's been done and how it's the career bureaucrats at certain in certain elements of the government that control this information and just wait presidents out and don't feel like they have a need to know. Right. Well, there were some people that tried to find information out in the beginning of the Trump administration. Who was it? [49:29] There was someone that talked about it on record. [49:32] And said he was told at every turn that you don't have the clearance. Yeah, yeah. But here's the thing. Trump actually... [49:39] Found out about the base facts in his last presidency and was contemplating stepping to the microphone then. What base facts? [49:49] Jay Stratton, who ran the task force, he says on camera in my film that he – [49:56] He briefed that Mnuchin, the Secretary of Treasury, asked for a briefing. [50:01] on the lay of the land. [50:03] Because Trump asked him to get the briefing and... [50:07] Trump had already known that the base facts that, that, that we're not alone in the universe, that,

[50:12] that [50:13] There's been recovery of crash craft, right? He knew those base facts and he told Mnuchin that he was thinking about going public. And so Mnuchin reached out to Stratton to get a briefing and he told he told Stratton that the reason he wanted the briefing is because he needed to be able to evaluate what the impact would be to the economy if the president decided to step to the mic and tell the world we're not alone. Stratton tells a story on camera in the film and I've heard a lot more about it off camera. So we know that [50:40] Trump contemplated doing this already. [50:42] Now I think the release of this film and Rubio's involvement... [50:47] puts enough on the table. [50:48] that it makes it easier for him to do. I think they would have to have some sort of a plan in place if they were going to say that, right? Like the amnesty plan. [50:59] The idea behind it would have to be in place. Or at least grab control of the situation and say that this is real and the U.S. intends to lead the way because the other factor that the White House has to keep in mind is you don't want she or Putin being the guy to do that. Right. You don't want them to have that. Right. [51:17] Thank you. [51:18] You know, something I always think about with regards to that moment of a president stepping to the mic, when we entered the space race, Kennedy gave that big famous speech, right? He was like... [51:26] We're going to lead in space technology, like, you know, space technology, like nuclear technology has no conscious of its own. It's up to man to use it for good or bad. And we're going to make sure it's used for the betterment of all mankind. And we're going to lead the way. That was his whole rallying speech. Right.

[51:43] the whole scientific community be like, we're going to help help us win like, you know, rah, rah, rah. Right. I think that's needed. [51:50] in this race. [51:51] Like we need... [51:53] all the support of the scientific community of academia, [51:56] The kids coming out of MIT, we need them putting their brainpower towards this. And I think the White House knows that. And it's also the greatest – that's the greatest TV moment a leader could have in the history of humanity. How much do you think Elon knows? [52:11] Look, I've seen him obviously talk to you about it. I think he knows a lot. Yeah, me too. [52:17] I don't think you get the contracts and the clearances you need to operate in space, right? [52:22] Without some horse trading. Yeah, when I went to SpaceX, I'm like, motherfucker, you know everything. There's no way you're launching these fucking things into space without them... [52:34] keying you in on exactly what's going on. He's just sly about it. He goes, well, if they're all aliens, they're certainly all subtle. That's what he says. Are they really? I don't know, man. I think it's impossible to operate in space like [52:45] He does and not be aware of everything. And also at the level he operates clearance-wise. I held a secret screening at the National Space Symposium. [52:56] earlier this year, which is the Super Bowl of the space industry. It's like 60 people, heavy hitters from the space industry. We didn't promote it or publicize it at all, but there were a dozen guys from SpaceX there, and they all seem very aware of everything revealed in the film. Yeah. Yeah. [53:12] I'm positive. Yeah. He's my friend, and he won't tell me. He's a legend. He keeps a lid on it.

[53:18] He's a legend. But how would he not know? And some people have told me he knows, that no, he knows some things. [53:26] So whatever. But the point is, people are good at keeping secrets. That's real. 100%. Even people that aren't notoriously good at keeping secrets are good at keeping secrets when they have to be. [53:41] Do you see him doing that? [53:43] Stepping to the mic and telling us the truth. Someone talks to him about it. [53:47] And convinces him it's a great idea. [53:50] Like if I had an hour with him. I mean, it's literally the single, in my opinion, the single greatest moment. [53:56] a leader could have in the history of the world. If he could be the guy that blows the lid off of it, that would definitely help with his legacy too, which I think would be a good way to convince him. [54:07] And also that the people would be excited about it. [54:09] You know, it's just... [54:12] I think there's probably a lot of forces that we're not totally aware of that would fight very hard to keep this from being revealed. There's a lot of people whose reputations would probably be in jeopardy. A lot of people that may never get trusted again, even if they get amnesty. If there's any evidence of impropriety, any evidence of embezzlement, which I can't imagine there's not some fucking funny money flying around here and there. It's just no oversight. [54:42] Come on, guys. Like, oh, you're above board totally with no oversight at all? And a trillion dollars? Fuck off. Yeah, yeah.

[54:52] I do think... [54:56] I've come to understand that he is... [54:58] borderline enraged at how much has been hidden. [55:01] from the White House. [55:02] So – [55:03] That alone might motivate them to just step up and say the truth. It's also the most bipartisan issue of our time. I'll talk to him about it. Have support. I'll give it a crack. I'll talk to him about it. There's just so many other things to talk about. You get a Nobel Peace Prize for that, Joe. No, I don't want one of those. I'll never show up. Give it to me. I'm going to have an empty stage. [55:24] I'm excited to see what happens on the other side of this release because I think it's going to – [55:28] I think it's going to weaken the public. I do think they're going to make a ton of demand on... [55:32] on elected leaders and representatives to go take this more seriously. And it's going to put pressure on the White House. People have never seen someone like Rubio step up and say what he says in the film. The other thing about Rubio, you've got to remember, he's also the national security advisor. [55:45] And that's never happened in the history of the United States other than Henry Kissinger for two years. [55:49] This guy's in a very powerful position, very influential position, and aware of a lot more than he was even when he was on the Senate Intelligence Committee as a senator. [55:57] Interesting. And also motivated and fascinated by it. So he's engaged in the information. Totally.

[56:12] if you could choose what happens after a movie like this comes out, what would you like to say? [56:16] Um, [56:17] some mass congressional hearings and a real conversation about. [56:21] amnesty because I think it's the only way to get to the bottom of things. Because otherwise I think you're going to have every fucking possible legal and hierarchical, hierarchical, whatever the word is, hurdle. Like at every step, everyone's going to block your access to information. They're going to lie. They're going to burn records. They're going to hide things. They're not going to tell you where anything is. People will get assassinated. There'll be whistleblowers. There'll be in grave danger. I think there's too much money involved. [56:51] about it like a criminal organization because if you turn them into criminals, they're going to act like criminals. If you if you say, hey, you might go to jail for the rest of your fucking life because you lied to Congress. And now we know you did. And you know, there's $250 million that your company got and $300 million this company got over the course of X amount of years. And we know we know that you got you're in trouble. Like we're going to put you in jail. And then [57:16] If that... [57:17] If you make them criminals, they're going to act like criminals. I think you're dealing with people that have enormous amounts of money and probably – [57:23] They make weapons. They're probably not the most respect for life.

[57:29] If there's a real discussion where it makes it look like it's their idea as well. Yeah. That they have this obligation to the American people. They were held under secrecy for so long. But now through this administration and through this openness that we've all decided through the scientific community, we're going to release this shit. I think I agree with you. And that could change the world. The other thing to remember is. [57:52] these aren't villains. They're not like... This isn't some like... [57:55] dark group of evil people. They're normal people that were given a job to do and then did it, right? And they weren't the decision makers. And they're navigating a situation that is unprecedented. There's no playbook for, right? So they think they're doing the right thing. And [58:13] And I think that's important to remember, you know. [58:16] You know the put-off thing? It's in your documentary. The Bush story. Bush Sr. He talked about it on the podcast. That is such a fascinating story. It's amazing. Back then. Right after 9-11. Yeah, Herbert Walker Bush... [58:29] No, it was Herbert Walker. [58:31] No, the panel was... It was George Bush Jr.? It was W.? Oh, I thought it was Bush Sr. Yeah, no, it was right after 9-11. Oh, okay. So during that time... So, I'm confused. But imagine, so let's imagine 2001. Where would we be 24 years later if we had real disclosure from the White House? So for people who didn't see the documentary yet or watch the podcast with me and Hal Puthoff, what he said was it was him and a bunch of other thought leaders. And they were all brought together...

[59:01] with a numerical value for pros and cons related to disclosure. So basically they said to them, we have acquired crafts that are not of this world and we have biological entities that are not of this world. These are real. We want to know if we disclose to the general public that, [59:21] That alien life is real. What would be the negative impacts on our society, on our government, on our religion? Economy. Yeah, every element of society. And they put a numerical value to everything. And overwhelmingly, all the people asked had way more con than pro. And they determined it was a bad idea. Yeah, which is so wild. Wild that there's this think tank over a couple days where a bunch of people got together and decided – [59:46] the fate of humanity. Isn't that fascinating? It's crazy. It was the fate. Well, at least, I don't think really the fate. I think what it did was just retard everything. It just slowed the growth of access to this. And I've really given the New York Times a lot of credit, because I think publishing in 2017, that piece that they did on the front page was so huge, because the New York Times is... [1:00:10] arguably the most respected newspaper in the world. And for them to address it like it's a real issue. And these pilots are seeing these things. They're behaving in ways that don't make any sense with propulsion that we do not understand. And these are real. And this is New York Times. Like that was... [1:00:28] So many people texted me after that and called me after that because they know that I'm a UFO nut. Yeah. And they're like, hey, man, this might be real. Like serious people that I'm friends with. Yeah. And I'm like, I think it's real. I think there's something there. Yeah. And it's helped us get us where we are now. Yes. Yeah.

[1:00:45] I don't think... [1:00:47] The mainstream media support I'm getting for this film right now, I don't think it would have happened if it wasn't for that. No. I think the Times article was – that burst the membrane and allowed more data to come. It's just more rational discourse about it because I think before then it was just so dismissed and so ridiculed. And you just didn't want to be attached to it because you were a fool. You'd have to be a fool to be considering it. But the Times still is one of those legacy media outlets that still hedges their bets. Like that article – [1:01:16] The original headline, I think, was, We're Not Alone in the Universe. And they changed it to, I think it was like Black Projects and Hidden Money or something like that. [1:01:27] Dial it down. Well, because they don't know. Right. We might not be alone in the universe. These things might be China's. [1:01:33] It's not likely. Well, that's the only thing. [1:01:37] if we open ourselves to the possibility that... [1:01:40] these advanced aircraft penetrating our nuclear weapons sites and our military bases are China. That's fucking terrifying. [1:01:46] And that should be the biggest issue of our time, hands down. [1:01:51] because we know the intention of the Chinese Communist Party. It's not good, right? They're not our friends, their adversaries. And [1:01:57] you know, she has made public statements about wanting to replace the United States at the top of the world order. [1:02:03] It's a stated goal, right? So if it is China, even the possibility that they have some of these crafts alongside non-human crafts – [1:02:11] existing, right? Yes. Even that possibility... [1:02:15] it it

[1:02:16] it requires the US government to take this so much more serious. Here's an analogy that [1:02:20] General Jim Clapper made to me. You know, he was the director of national intelligence. He's in the film. He's like, before 9-11, we didn't put the right amount of money towards counterterrorism. [1:02:28] and we [1:02:31] weren't properly sharing information in the intelligence community. [1:02:33] Then this horrible thing happened. [1:02:35] And the public was outraged and said, [1:02:37] We got to throw money and resources at counterterrorism. Every elected representative was beating that drum. We started the director of national intelligence position so that the agencies would all share information and you would minimize the chance of intelligence gaps. And we threw tons of appropriated funds towards counterterrorism. [1:02:53] We now spend more money on counterterrorism than we even need to. [1:02:56] And his point was he hopes... [1:03:00] It doesn't take something bad happening on this front. [1:03:02] like China. [1:03:04] cracking this technology in a way we haven't and then using it against us or non-human intelligent life. [1:03:11] taking an action that isn't favorable to us before we then throw resources towards it. And it's essentially the same thing Rubio said. They think we need to get ahead of this problem, not wait for it to happen and then react to it. Well, of course. I mean, it would be a horrible loss, both in terms of our – [1:03:30] our national [1:03:32] pride of being the innovators and being at the head of technology. If China came out and said, we've cracked this, we have UFOs that we've back-engineered, and now we can fly them around, and we can go visit other solar systems. And we've created a new energy source. We're going to save the planet. Yeah. We would look like fools. We'd also be set back. And if we realized that there would have been a bunch of people that were working on this stuff the whole time,

[1:04:02] and lying to Congress, it'd be a fucking national disaster. We would look completely incompetent. I really legitimately think a lot of the people in my film stepped up because they don't want to be left hole in the bag. [1:04:15] have people saying, "Why didn't you say something sooner?" I really think this is... Because it's that close. Cover your butt because it's that close. So when people talk about the successful back engineering of these things, [1:04:27] What are they saying? Are they saying that they can fly around Earth? Are they saying they can go outside of Earth's atmosphere and go into deep space with these things? Like, what have they said we are currently able to do with these back-engineered crafts that we've – [1:04:44] supposedly made ourselves... People that I can't attribute the statement to that [1:04:48] very credible sources told me that [1:04:52] some of the UAP activity in space specifically. [1:04:56] is reverse-engineered technology. Okay. Does that mean in space in low Earth orbit, or does that mean traveling through the solar system? [1:05:07] The... [1:05:08] What was implied to me was traveling through the solar system. Jeez. Yeah. So... [1:05:13] Are these... Here's another thing someone... That same person said to me, by the way. Yeah. So I... [1:05:18] before I forget [1:05:19] that [1:05:21] Their belief is that... [1:05:23] the technology we have would not be pulled out even to stop a world war. [1:05:29] And those cards would not be shown until moments before...

[1:05:35] like a nuclear war situation. [1:05:37] Thank you. [1:05:38] So they wouldn't pull it out to stop like any of the wars we've experienced since World War II. They wouldn't – regardless of how many – It has to get to nine. It has to get to a level where there's no other option. Wow. Because it's show your cards. Wow. [1:05:54] Now, when they say that they've traveled through the solar system, [1:05:58] Is this biological human beings? [1:06:00] Or are these drone crafts? Like, what are they saying? I never got any of that. [1:06:05] I never got any of that. All I was told is there's some of the UAPs that are seen – [1:06:10] that have been seen by our astronauts on space missions. [1:06:13] our non-human intelligent life. [1:06:14] and some... [1:06:16] are reverse engineered craft. That's what I was told. But we don't know whether there's a person inside of them. I don't. If they are reverse engineered and they are ours... [1:06:24] And we figured out how to make our own. That I don't know. [1:06:27] Yeah, I need to know that. Yeah. That's kind of important. Yeah, there's a lot. Is there fucking some dude named Bob flying through space? Some Top Gun guy that they've given the task of traveling to Venus real quick? Wouldn't surprise me. You know... [1:06:41] One of the other things that we're talking about Clapper and Ruby and what they said about China. [1:06:46] Something else that they both said, despite these guys being completely ideologically opposed, right? Like they have nothing else in common. [1:06:53] They both spoke to... [1:06:56] How we as a species, not just our country, but an entire human species is held back by this. There's something in the fact that there's something in the human psyche that says I can't prepare for.

[1:07:07] or wrap my head around something I haven't experienced yet. Right. And how that... [1:07:11] leads to strategic surprise because you're not preparing for something that can ultimately end up happening. And Rubio makes great examples. He says, you know, we didn't think the Japanese could torpedo us at Pearl Harbor. [1:07:21] until they figured it out, and they did. We didn't think that terrorists were going to come here and learn how to fly commercial airplanes and use them in a terror attack until they did. [1:07:28] And... [1:07:29] with this, he's like, we don't want [1:07:31] strategic surprise to lead to a disaster on this front. We need to be ahead of it. And he very powerfully says that, you know, often strategic surprise changes the course of human history. [1:07:40] So this is the question. If we have craft that we can travel through the solar system, we meaning someone in the United States of America, does China – [1:07:50] Do they have the same ability right now? Is there an understanding of where they're at in the race versus us? Yeah. [1:07:57] Thank you. [1:07:59] Everyone who talked about the race with China. [1:08:01] was extremely concerned about how close they were. [1:08:05] And multiple people talked about how these incursions over our sensitive bases and nukes [1:08:10] could in fact be reverse engineered Chinese craft. [1:08:14] So it is a scary situation. I mean, look, you can ask the average person a common sense question. [1:08:19] Knowing what you know about the dynamic between China and the United States. [1:08:22] Would you be okay if they were the only country that had a nuclear weapon? [1:08:26] The answer is no, right? [1:08:27] Right. [1:08:28] so [1:08:29] would you want them to be the only country that has [1:08:31] technology. [1:08:32] more powerful than a nuclear weapon, that could be weaponized in a way that's more destructive than a nuclear weapon.

[1:08:37] But what technology do they have other than the ability to travel? What other observed technology do they have? Well, if you weaponize this technology. [1:08:46] Like, let's just take something like the Tic Tac. [1:08:48] I imagine you could. [1:08:50] Imagine you could... [1:08:51] Take something like that. Anywhere in the world. And put a nuclear weapon in there. Right. [1:08:56] You would have a nuclear weapon that goes off in less than a second on the other side of the world. It's completely undetectable to any sensor system. You can't react to it. [1:09:03] Yeah. You know. [1:09:05] Bad news. Also, these vehicles display the ability to be transmedium. [1:09:11] So you could... [1:09:12] put a nuke through any environment... [1:09:15] It's very scary. Well, so transmedium, does that mean – I know that it can go in the air and in the water, but does that mean it can go through actual physical objects? Yeah. Yeah. [1:09:24] So this is one of the things in one of the crazier Jacques Vallée stories that – I've read a few of his books. And one of the more bizarre ones, this woman found this object on her property, some large property. [1:09:38] I want to say it's Nevada. I forget where it was. California, Nevada. But anyway, this – [1:09:44] egg-shaped large object and that as it took off it flew through the trees. [1:09:51] She said it didn't disturb the trees. It just went right through them. Yeah. So, I mean, look, one of those – if you remember in the film, there's this great scene where Hal Pudoff and Eric Davis were two of the senior scientists involved with the government UAP programs. They break down how they figured out how these crafts work. [1:10:06] and how they are warping space-time in a localized area.

[1:10:09] And they're basically creating a bubble [1:10:11] that the craft operates in. [1:10:13] and the bubble separates the craft from the environment around it. The environment becomes irrelevant. [1:10:18] So you can move through physical space, [1:10:21] could move from air to space to the water and, [1:10:24] frictionless, there's no splash. The environment outside the bubble is irrelevant. They're creating their own [1:10:31] space-time, essentially. They're warping space-time and creating a bubble around the craft. [1:10:35] when you start to think about how that could be weaponized. [1:10:38] It's really terrifying. And what is he saying that they're using? Like how are they? He's saying that they're creating an immense amount of energy in this localized area to create the bubble. And there's two prevailing thoughts on how that energy is created. One is they're tapping into so-called zero-point energy. [1:10:54] which has only been theorized at this point. [1:10:56] by humans, right? Or they're using quantum entanglement to pull energy from a far off source. [1:11:02] to the local [1:11:03] area, the bubble. [1:11:06] End. [1:11:08] That's what they figured out. Do they have any knowledge of these generators or how they're acquiring this amount of power, what they're using? How are they harnessing zero-point energy? No. [1:11:18] No. [1:11:19] No. But if we've got one and we've back engineered it successfully, clearly someone must know. Yeah. [1:11:25] So someone knows. Look, Hal and Eric got very close with the scientists in the legacy program. [1:11:31] and we're sharing information. [1:11:34] and [1:11:35] that got shut down. [1:11:36] by the CIA. [1:11:38] So – [1:11:39] before it got shut down, they learned a lot about what we've been doing.

[1:11:42] secretly and what we've been figuring out. [1:11:44] Jeez. [1:11:46] So it's the fucking CIA. Well, look, the film reveals that the legacy program, the craft retrieval reverse engineering program... [1:11:55] It has several elements. It's elements of the Air Force. It's elements of... [1:11:58] the Department of Energy, elements of the CIA. [1:12:01] and it's defense contractors, and the CIA is the quarterback of the whole thing. [1:12:05] The Air Force is used for... [1:12:08] recovery [1:12:09] field work, essentially. They have [1:12:12] the teams that can [1:12:14] react fast and go to a site and [1:12:16] collect materials and classify it, and they have the aircraft to bring it back to a base. The defense contractors have the technology, know-how, and the engineering skills to do the reverse engineering. The Department of Energy has laws that can be used to... [1:12:30] classify the material outside of [1:12:32] you know, the president's reach and Congress's reach. They also have, you know, people who are experts at anything that [1:12:38] gives off a lot of radiation and energy. And then... [1:12:42] the, um, the CIA quarterbacks, they'll think, think of them as like operational control. And this is revealed by a number of people in the film. And, um, every single source I talked to, there were a lot of people, Joe, that I talked to in very senior positions, um, [1:12:57] that thought the film was important and the only way to bring the truth out to the public... [1:13:01] but they couldn't be on camera. [1:13:04] And they guided me, filled in gaps for me, helped me understand the lay of the land. There were some people that told me not to interview. There was a couple people that were sent to me.

[1:13:13] People wanted to trick me into including them in the film because they were crazy people. And I didn't include them. I got tipped off by people. Don't stay clear of that. That's someone's agenda, trying to sink your ship. But I had a lot of folks helping. The Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Armed Services Committee. [1:13:31] We're extremely supportive. [1:13:33] And... [1:13:35] I really don't think I would have been able to pull off... [1:13:38] making the film I did, if not for their help. And Rubio... [1:13:42] when I started my process was the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. [1:13:46] And he had already learned a lot about what has been hidden from Congress. [1:13:49] And... [1:13:50] thought that what I was doing was really the only way to bring it out because none of these people on their own [1:13:56] would go out on a limb by themselves and become subject to ridicule. They didn't want to be the one guy out there saying all this extraordinary stuff, right? Not only because there's this antiquated cultural stigma where they can be made fun of or their reputation can be damaged, but there's also this... [1:14:09] security system around the deeply hidden Crash or Shield program that [1:14:13] for years has just targeted anyone who speaks up and so I [1:14:18] I [1:14:20] what I basically put together was a way for them to safely do it and have strength in numbers and be arm in arm with, you know, several doves and other people. And once Rubio leaned into that, [1:14:29] I just started getting tremendous support from the Armed Service Committee and the Intelligence Committee. [1:14:34] then Senator rounds became very helpful behind the scenes. Um, intelligence officials, um, who worked this topic like, like Jay Stratton and Lou Elizondo and Hal Pudoff, um, um,

[1:14:45] were extremely helpful behind the scenes, opening doors, introducing me to people. [1:14:51] and uh [1:14:53] Yeah, I think that – I think this is really the only way this is – we were going to get this level of information out. [1:14:59] by giving people that safety in numbers. And then after this, it's going to require the kind of amnesty we talked about. [1:15:05] When you're a small business owner, you're always looking for the next big thing. Whether you're a gym owner looking to expand, a store stocking up for a busy season, or a restaurant owner planning a new menu, [1:15:16] you'll always need capital to grow. [1:15:18] But traditional banks are making it harder than ever to secure a small business loan. [1:15:23] That's why thousands of business owners trust Cardiff for same-day funding. [1:15:27] Their online application takes less than five minutes and won't impact your personal credit score. [1:15:33] With over two decades of expertise, it's no surprise business owners keep voting Cardiff, America's favorite small business lender. [1:15:41] If you've been operating for at least a year and are earning at least $20,000 a month in revenue, [1:15:46] Apply now for up to $500,000 in same-day business funding at cardiff.co.rogan. [1:15:52] Again, that's cardiff.co slash rogan. Cardiff. Borrow better. [1:15:58] This episode is brought to you by Dodge. The new Dodge Charger Scat Pack is built for people who still believe driving should be exciting. You want to talk about performance? Let's start with a twin-turbo six-pack gas engine. All gas, no mercy, 550 horsepower, 0-60 in just 3.9 seconds, and a top speed of 177 miles an hour.

[1:16:28] traction, and attitude, the Dodge Charger Scat Pack comes with standard all-wheel drive and a selectable rear-wheel drive mode so you can get confident handling when you want it and the freedom to still be able to do burnouts. Available in both two-door and four-door models, the new Charger Scat Pack, it's loud, it's fast, it's powerful, and unapologetically Dodge. Learn more [1:16:58] is a registered trademark of FCA US LLC. Because this is only what they can lawfully disclose. [1:17:07] There's so much more. So when it comes to underground, or excuse me, underwater stuff... [1:17:13] This is what Tim Burchette was talking about when that person was famously interviewing him. And everybody was like, what? You're just walking across the street casually talking about bases? Yeah. Where they're coming out of the ocean? Yeah. [1:17:25] What do they think that is? [1:17:30] Is that different from what's going on in the sky? No, they think it's the same crafts. So they have a base? [1:17:37] More simply put... [1:17:38] If you were here with advanced aircraft and you wanted to hide from humanity, [1:17:43] the most logical place is the ocean. It's the majority of our planet. We've barely... [1:17:47] We've barely studied it. We've barely... We've... One of the admirals in my film says... [1:17:53] we've scanned the surface of the moon in more detail than we have the bottom of our oceans. Yeah. It's crazy how much is unexplored, right? Right. And so it's the most obvious place to hide. There's a lot of activity that happens in the oceans. One of the –

[1:18:07] One of the people I talked to [1:18:09] Thought they would be in the film and then decided it was too risky for them was a special forces guy who was involved in a recovery. [1:18:16] of [1:18:17] a craft... [1:18:19] It was in the ocean. And when they were recovering it, [1:18:22] a giant craft came up next to them. [1:18:25] like a function craft. [1:18:27] And the helicopter pulled out and they dropped the line. [1:18:30] and the helicopter took off, and the SEAL was in the water and watched this thing take off, and then he had to be recovered out of the water. [1:18:37] That's crazy. And the craft that they were trying to recover went down? Yeah, it went down. And did the big ship take it or anything? They said actually – they actually literally said that. They said it took it and went back down. [1:18:49] Thank you. [1:18:50] Yo. Yeah. How big was the big one? They said it was big. [1:18:54] Just big. That's the only word they used, to be honest. Yeah. And the guy was rattled because the guy was in the water. The seal was in the water hooking a line to this craft. [1:19:03] And when the helicopter pulled out, he said he was in the water just shitting his pants. [1:19:07] and taking in this extraordinary experience. And then... Was he wearing a vest? [1:19:13] I'm sure he's wearing his like frogman outfit. Fucking doggy paddling. [1:19:18] Leave him there in the fucking water. These guys panic and pull out. Maybe the UFO would have let you take it. All these situations are really bonkers. I wonder what would have happened if they were like, fuck you, we're taking it. [1:19:31] you know i i i what i often wonder is if any of the guys on that shopper snap snap video of this thing

[1:19:39] There's a lot of video that exists. [1:19:42] that is either... [1:19:44] classified, [1:19:45] at a crazy high level, or people are just terrified to share. [1:19:50] And that's one of the other things. Like once we need – [1:19:55] A declassification process that's real and sincere and... [1:19:59] you know, rigorously goes through what's there. [1:20:01] and what can be showed. [1:20:02] that won't hurt our national security. Right. Right. And just start being transparent with, with the public. This, this encounter of the seal reminded me of another thing that I think is really important and speaks to the accountability issue. There's, [1:20:14] a number of [1:20:15] military... [1:20:17] personnel and scientists that have worked [1:20:21] for defense contractors, who have had... [1:20:24] and intelligence officials who have had encounters [1:20:27] And then end up with biological effects, like real issues, cancer, cancer. [1:20:31] autoimmune issues. [1:20:37] A number of people have died of cancer after being around these things, and that's a whole other level of accountability. [1:20:44] You know, there's there's people whose medical bills should have been paid for. They shouldn't have been put in those situations. You know, there's families growing up without a dad because. . . [1:20:53] Dad encountered a UFO on behalf of the U.S. government and died. Jesus. So that's a whole other side of this. Them getting cancer from being around the object or being around biologics? [1:21:04] Or both. The object. [1:21:09] once you understand that

[1:21:10] these craft are warping space time in a localized area and creating immense amount of energy. [1:21:14] Getting close to it is like getting close to a huge electrical system or it's just – [1:21:19] It's bad. [1:21:20] Right. You know, that's the Travis Walton story. [1:21:23] Thank you. [1:21:23] It's a lot of stories. Yeah. Travis Walton in particular, that's what he said happened. He got close to the object and something zapped him. And whether it was an actual targeted attack or whether it was just something, a reaction to him being so close to this energy. [1:21:39] that he was thrown back, knocked unconscious, gravely hurt, and that they took off. Yeah. I've spoken... [1:21:47] I've spoken off the record to some intelligence officials who – [1:21:50] have managed to actually get [1:21:52] the government to take accountability and give them anonymous health injury status, AHI status, which has only gone to, um, [1:22:00] victims of quote unquote Havana syndrome. Um, [1:22:04] It's a real situation, but not everyone has the relationships or the ability to get escalated to the Secretary of Defense and get that AHI status. The Secretary of Defense has to give you the AHI status. [1:22:15] This is going to sound crazy, but is there a particular protocol for dealing with the kind of cancer that you get from getting in contact with a UFO? The only thing that I know of, I wouldn't call it a protocol, but I do know that there is a couple specific people – [1:22:31] doctors who [1:22:33] have become a part of... [1:22:35] the intelligence communities looking into this and they've become the go-to. [1:22:39] doctors for people having biological effects and,

[1:22:43] they [1:22:44] if you have a relationship with them, if you can get to them, they show up pretty quickly and [1:22:48] do the appropriate tests and documentation of it and have the right doctors to send you to. Um, [1:22:56] Thank you. [1:22:57] Gary Nolan, who you interviewed, is one of those people. [1:23:00] Yeah, Gary Nolan, who's done some groundbreaking research on cancer. Yeah. Gary – The other guy, I shouldn't say his name, but – [1:23:09] um [1:23:11] He used to work for... [1:23:15] One of the big intelligence agencies that's deeply involved in this. [1:23:21] The other thing that Gary has that's really fascinating is the research on materials. [1:23:26] Like some of the... [1:23:28] Some of the allegedly retrieved materials from crash sites and how bizarre they are. Yeah, from studying the isotopes. The stuff that Gary's gotten into that I find the most mind-blowing is he has – [1:23:42] Real... [1:23:43] Classified documentation of... [1:23:48] encounters that military and intelligence officials have had with UAP and biological effects it's caused. And some of them are, [1:23:54] crazy. Like a Department of Defense official who had a UAP above his house [1:24:00] And went out in his backyard and looked up at it, and then the thing zapped him with the directed energy weapon. And he has all of the medical signs of a directed energy attack. And this is a super senior, credible guy who had recently been made aware of the UAP issue.

[1:24:14] And then he has this experience. Wow. Yeah. [1:24:18] It's pretty wild. [1:24:20] So what are the effects of a direct energy weapon? Like what's the... [1:24:25] What are the consequences? [1:24:26] Cancer. That's what he's getting? Cancer. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Do you know about the Varginia Brazil story? Do you know about the James Fox documentary? Yeah, yeah. I'm excited to see James's... [1:24:37] Yeah, he's got a new one. Yeah. He's got a follow-up with, I think it's the actual doctor that worked with the patient. He was at the hospital that night and interacted with the being. Yeah, I'm excited to see that. So the story is that this police officer, that they found this crash, and the documentary is excellent. If you haven't seen that, folks, it's called Moment of Contact. It's really good. And one of the things that's really good about it is the eyewitnesses. [1:25:07] the scene of the crash, I was like, [1:25:09] Either that guy is an amazing actor. That's great. Or he's really crying because he's remembering this insane moment in his life. Yeah. And there was eyewitnesses that saw a live one of these things. [1:25:21] And this police officer found one that was injured, carried it, put it in the car, physically carried it. They brought it to a hospital. That hospital told them, we don't know what to do with this. You've got to take it somewhere else. They took it to a second hospital. And the second hospital, this is the doctor allegedly that examined it. Yeah. [1:25:37] That police officer had a horrific bacterial infection that they could not cure, and he died within weeks.

[1:25:44] It's horrible. Yeah. It's horrible. There's so many examples of [1:25:48] these interactions going bad. But it's also like, you know... [1:25:52] Thank you. [1:25:53] Imagine you didn't know what a fighter jet was and there was this giant flame coming out of the back of it. And you walk behind it. You're going to be toast. Right. It's not – I don't think it's an intentional thing. I think it's – we're interacting with – [1:26:06] technology we don't understand and you're getting too close to it and we're getting too close to it don't go walk up to it yeah it's floating in the air totally that means it's got an insane amount of power that's carrying this fucking totally 2000 ton thing the other crazy story that um was in so um [1:26:21] James Fox's movie, The Phenomenon, which he directed it. He's totally responsible for making that movie. I was a producer on it with him, but it's all James. James 100% made that movie. [1:26:32] one of the coolest stories in that film was [1:26:36] the aerial school phenomenon story at the end. These kids in Zimbabwe at a school in like, I think it was 89 or 90, 91, something like that. [1:26:44] Maybe it was 94 around that time. Um, [1:26:47] These kids. [1:26:49] between the ages of 7 and 13 or something like that, they all saw this [1:26:54] this craft come down, [1:26:56] during their recess and they all say they experienced the same thing they all saw these beings um that looked like they were moving in slow motion around the craft and they saw this craft take off at thousands of miles an hour after years later they're all saying the same thing the stories didn't change they didn't try to like you know

[1:27:16] make money off this at all. It's a wild story. But now when you look back at that story through what guys like Hal and Eric are... [1:27:23] revealing about the warp bubble, [1:27:25] Thank you. [1:27:25] Do you know what would make... [1:27:27] someone look like they're moving slow. [1:27:29] if they were inside of a warp bubble next to the craft... [1:27:33] where time and space is moving differently than outside the craft. [1:27:37] That's literally what it would do. [1:27:38] For the same reasons why the craft in the bubble could just be cruising along, but to us it looks like it's going at these impossible speeds. You're in a different space-time environment. So all these things that people... [1:27:48] saw... [1:27:50] Thank you. [1:27:51] at Ariel, you know, in Brazil, they get, they get explained by these reveals that are starting to come out now. And that's, to me, that's wild seeing how these things all connect. [1:28:00] Yeah, it is crazy. And it's essentially this description of the way these propulsion systems work is – [1:28:08] essentially the exact same way Lazar was describing it. [1:28:10] Which is really nuts that in 1989 he was proposing that there's some sort of a gravity-defying device. And that it was using element 115 and then it was radiated and somehow or another is creating this gravity drive that just sends it to wherever it wants to be rather than propels it. The way he described it is like if you took a bowling ball and you put it in a very soft cushion, it would just push through. And that's what these things do. It just pushes through to wherever it's supposed to be. Yeah. [1:28:40] Thank you. [1:28:41] The other explanation is like... [1:28:45] Like a ball rolling downhill, like a surfboard pointed down, riding a wave. When did they first start to become aware of underwater activity? And when did they first start to suspect that these things were, in fact, having at least some sort of a base underneath the ocean? I don't know the exact first, but I do know...

[1:29:05] from [1:29:06] people I've talked to that, [1:29:07] as far back as the 80s. [1:29:09] wow yeah [1:29:11] which is incredible. Well the crazy thing is that they've really been studying this stuff and retrieving things like back from Roswell which was 47. They've really been doing this stuff for that long. [1:29:22] It's. [1:29:24] It's kind of crazy that they were able to actually keep a lid on it for so long. [1:29:29] I mean, it's not that crazy when your life's being threatened. Right. [1:29:34] it [1:29:35] And it's kind of got a lid on it, right? Kind of, but not really. I mean, there's been people leaking. Because we all know about Roswell. Yeah, there's been people leaking over the years information. [1:29:44] I think now we're at a tipping point where... [1:29:48] Like, I really believe the release of this film is the singular tipping point where you have this many credible high level people saying, yes, this is real. I mean, even Clapper talking, going on the record saying that UAP activity over Area 51 is real. [1:30:02] The biggest conspiracy globally that there's UFOs over Area 51, that 90% of humanity is written off as bullshit, right? Right. Here's the guy who was director of national intelligence and head of Air Force Intelligence saying, no, that's real. [1:30:12] Like, it's like, so I think the tipping point, Rubio going on the record, second most powerful guy in the world, arguably, saying that the presidents are kept out of the loop on this and that defense contractors have taken this over. And that even he even says that every now and then advancements made get slipped into commercialized product that some defense contractors make a bunch of money on for their own best interest, not for the benefit of the nation and national security.

[1:30:36] These are bombs dropped at the most credible level possible, and I think that – [1:30:41] because we've had all the leaks over the years. [1:30:44] it's going to resonate with people. People are like, oh shit. [1:30:47] all those things that have been slipping out over the years, [1:30:49] It's real. And these guys are validating it. And it'll be really interesting to see what's on the other side of that. And the other wild thing, Joe, is when you go down the rabbit hole of the UAP topic – [1:30:58] with people in the intelligence community military, you start learning about adjacent things, you know, that are equally bonkers. [1:31:05] Like remote viewing, which you've talked a lot about, right? Yeah. You know? [1:31:08] I mean, I don't think it's a coincidence that Hal Rudolph... [1:31:12] you know, was the guy who created Stargate and ran Stargate. [1:31:15] backed by the DOD and the CIA and also was deeply involved in the UAP topic for decades. You know, there's a lot of overlap. [1:31:23] And [1:31:24] The remote viewing topic is fascinating. It's another one of those things where you learn about it and you're like, there is a there there. It's a real situation. Yeah. [1:31:30] And it's extraordinary. Yeah. Makes you think how much more is hidden from us that we have. I definitely want to talk about that. But I want to ask you, were there specifics when they talk about technology that was acquired that was then rolled into – [1:31:44] No. No one said it on the record. I was shocked when... [1:31:49] when Rubio said that on camera, when he went there, like... [1:31:53] He's clearly stating that – I mean, I think word for word, I think he says – [1:31:58] And every now and then, [1:31:59] an advancement gets made and gets commercialized, and some companies making a ton of money on it for their own interests. But is there any suspicions when you – Yeah, no, I've heard suspicions. Like what? Like how it has impacted –

[1:32:12] hypersonic missiles. I've heard things about, you know, early days of fiber optics. I've heard things about night vision. Um, but, [1:32:20] no one would go on the record and say something definitive. The thing people were comfortable saying and Rubio said is that [1:32:29] Defense contractors have been in control of this over the decades. Congressional oversight has... [1:32:34] Congress has lost congressional oversight, and essentially these programs are just moving along and keeping it to themselves. And when you keep something to yourself, it's easy to... [1:32:44] slip a win into your commercialized side of your business. Right. I would like to know what that is, though. Me too. That would be really interesting. And who knows, by the way, if it's even public. It might be something that... [1:32:54] they made. Right. [1:32:56] that isn't public, [1:32:57] that they're using to get bigger contracts. [1:33:00] Right. In exchange for shutting up about it. Right. Of course. Why wouldn't you? Let's go deep. Put that fucking chin foil hat on securely. Do you know about the conspiracy about Bell Laboratory? Yeah. [1:33:13] In New Jersey? Yeah, I've heard a lot about that. The tinfoil hat thing is a good reminder that, [1:33:20] That has been... [1:33:22] One of the things I learned is that the stigma around this was created by the people covering this up. [1:33:28] Oh, yeah. In the early 50s, late 40s, the CIA, when they took control of this, they were like, we got to make sure people don't ask about this. How do we do that? It's just psychological, psychological operation. Like, [1:33:37] Make people think they're crazy. Make people think they're wacko. Make tinfoil hat jokes. And then that gets built into our culture, and different generations grow up thinking...

[1:33:46] "Oh, you're a nut if you talk about this, it'd be embarrassing, you have your career ruined." And now here we are, we're like, you know. [1:33:52] people giggle when you bring up this serious issue, right? Still. Yeah, and it's been used against people inside a government. So here's a good story. This is – [1:34:04] Yeah, I'll just tell you. So Jay Stratton told me about an event that happened on the military base that is Top Gun, the Top Gun base, where a craft... [1:34:13] Came down. [1:34:15] I don't know exactly how high it was, whether it was in the air or in space, but came down from very high, dropped to above the tarmac in front of the base commander and his number two. [1:34:25] And they documented it. [1:34:27] with video recording. [1:34:28] And this was when Jay was running the UEP task force. And they reached out to him saying they wanted to report this. And Jay went and talked to them in person. And they were going to do an – these were super senior guys that were going to do an official on-the-record testimony about what they saw with their own eyes. [1:34:46] Jay told a senior guy in Naval Intelligence, [1:34:49] who he thought was... [1:34:51] on the right side of history, and before these guys could come in and testify, [1:34:57] the [1:34:58] Maybe one tells him to fish who was actually part of the cover-up. [1:35:00] sent these guys tinfoil hats [1:35:03] and told them that's what they'd be wearing the rest of their lives if they spoke up. Wow. And... [1:35:08] The guys reached out to Jay and said, [1:35:10] We're not providing the evidence. We're not going to talk about this. Let's pretend it never happened. So, you know, that kind of stuff really holds back because it's very easy to deter a military. Somebody's put their devoted their whole life to them to climbing the ladder in the military. Yeah.

[1:35:26] And you're going to tell them that you could just end their career path in an instant? [1:35:32] Why would they keep going forward? Yeah, why would they? Makes no sense. I wouldn't. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. When you're looking to hire, you consider someone's skills, experience, availability. But even more important than that is someone's enthusiasm. They should want to be there. Finding the right kind of motivation isn't as tough as you think. You just need ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. [1:36:02] Connects you with qualified candidates instantly. And their latest feature puts the most interested ones at the top of your list. So you can make sure you're speaking with the right people at the start. Use ZipRecruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. [1:36:32] ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. One thing you probably don't think about when you're planning the perfect summer getaway is protecting your home. But if disaster strikes, you want to be prepared. Even better, if it can be stopped before it happens. So check out SimpliSafe. They're the smarter option when it comes to home security because their systems help prevent and stop crime in real time before it starts.

[1:37:02] long-term contracts and no technician appointments. You can get a custom system and set it up in one afternoon by yourself or even sooner. It's one of many reasons why millions of people continue to trust and use SimpliSafe. Everyone deserves to have peace of mind, which is why I'm happy to partner with SimpliSafe again and offer an exclusive discount. Right now, you can get 50% [1:37:32] at simplisafe.com slash rogan. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. My fucking mouth. And maybe tell Jesse Michaels 10 years later. [1:37:42] That's what a lot of these guys wind up doing. They retire and then they start talking. I do think that we're going to see more people come out. I really... [1:37:51] I've already started – I've started receiving – since the trailers have been out there, I've started receiving incoming DMs on social media sites from super senior people where, like, I look up who they are and I'm like, holy shit. And they're like, hey, we should talk in person sometime. There's some things I want to share. Whoa. And I don't know what's going to come out of that. I haven't done those meetings yet, but I imagine people are going to come out of the woodwork because this stuff is real and it's been hidden so much. And I know there's some big people coming out next year. [1:38:21] Stratton's book is going to be a big thing too I've actually been working with him on it developing his book and it's going to come out in the spring Harper Collins is publishing it [1:38:30] And it's...

[1:38:32] It's fucking bombshell. It's bonkers. [1:38:34] Wow. So much detail. One of the other things that I didn't include in the film, Joe, that's [1:38:40] I mean, it's bonkers to think about. [1:38:44] All of the intelligence officials who... [1:38:47] actually investigated this for the government. Like the people involved in OSAP and ATIP and UAP task force, they all started having activity at their homes. [1:38:57] when they were investigating. [1:38:58] non-human intelligent life. [1:39:00] What kind of activity? Orbs in their houses. [1:39:03] orbs interacting with their family. [1:39:05] causing medical issues for family members. [1:39:07] ending up in the hospital, family members ending up in the hospital due to orb activity. Like what issues due to orb activity? Um, one of the senior intelligence officials that I spoke to, and I'll let him tell his own story. Um, [1:39:19] when he's ready, but... [1:39:20] Sun got extremely impacted by an orb. [1:39:26] black and blue over his whole body, had to go to the hospital. [1:39:29] looked like someone took a bat to his chest. [1:39:32] Um, [1:39:33] I didn't include this in the film, this section, because... [1:39:38] I feel like [1:39:40] when you get into the stuff happening in people's houses, I think it's a bridge too far for a lot of people. And you've got to set the table with the base facts first, which is what my film does. And then they can open their minds to these other things. But... [1:39:52] Um, [1:39:53] What I found really interesting is when I would do these interviews with people and they would all talk about this activity they started having at their houses – [1:39:59] that in some cases cause medical issues. [1:40:02] It was all after they started looking into non-human intelligent life, and their takeaway was that...

[1:40:07] non-human intelligent life was looking into them because [1:40:09] They were looking into non-human intelligence life, and they made the analogy of if a Russian spy comes to D.C. to spy on Congress, our intelligence community spies on the Russian spy. [1:40:17] And so that was their outlook. [1:40:19] And I thought that was... [1:40:21] It was really interesting and – [1:40:25] almost implies like a human level of thinking, you know? Or maybe some attempt to make contact. Yeah. [1:40:32] You know, there was a guy that I interviewed at Skinwalker Ranch who lived outside of the ranch who had an orb experience. And... [1:40:41] I talked to a few people there that were clearly out of their fucking mind, maybe on meth, but a few people that seemed pretty credible. And this guy was the most. Just a regular guy with a regular job. Interesting guy. Cool to talk to. [1:40:56] He said that he's had a few weird sightings, but the weirdest one was one day in his home, this orb that was like larger than a softball, he said, came flying into his house. [1:41:11] and was in the living room with him and was interacting with him. [1:41:15] And then it flew down the hallway and flew right through the walls. Yeah. It disappeared. But he said it interacted with him. Yeah. Like it was in front of him, like letting him know that it's there. Almost – some people say almost in a playful way. Yeah. [1:41:29] I've heard about this orb activity in intelligence officials' houses. [1:41:34] Thank you. [1:41:34] more times than I can remember, countless times. And...

[1:41:37] the journey of this movie, I not only got to know a lot of these intelligence officials very well, but, like, went and spent time with their wives, with their kids, with them together, and when you see, like... [1:41:46] A wife completing a husband's sentence? [1:41:48] like they're telling you what they experienced together. [1:41:50] It's bonkers, man. It's wild. It's like, holy shit, this happened. And then when you hear their kids talk about it separately, that's literally word for word. You guys are all experiencing the same thing. You have these different POVs. It's not like the family got together with a coordinated lie. It doesn't feel like that. To trick the kids into doing it. That seems... That seems a little over the top because to what end, right? It's not like I put it in the movie, you know? [1:42:12] Yeah. But it's really fascinating. And the orb activity... [1:42:20] Who knows what it is, man? It could be... [1:42:22] It could be another form of the... [1:42:24] warping of space-time in a localized area. Once you do that, [1:42:29] time and space is different in that bubble. So that could be a, [1:42:33] a much bigger craft inside of a [1:42:35] energy ball that we see. This might be what we see is the orb, right? It might be a transportation device. There might be a being in there. [1:42:41] And this is just what we're seeing is what's on the outside of this warping of space-time. Well, that's another thing that one of the eyewitnesses described that was very weird was a craft that was small, but then when they got inside of it, it was the size of a football field. Yeah, so that also goes with the warping of space-time. [1:42:58] So Hal says in the film... [1:43:00] This was something I was shocked at Hal said. I was really shocked. He says... [1:43:06] Warping of space-time in the bubble explains a lot of things that...

[1:43:10] at this point haven't made sense to us. And he says, like, for example, [1:43:14] when a military serviceman goes onto a craft that looks like it's, you know, 40 feet, and then he goes inside, [1:43:21] It looks like it's the size of a football field. [1:43:24] That makes sense now because from outside the bubble, it's one thing, and inside the bubble, it's something else. [1:43:31] That's wild. Yeah. And I've heard that story a number of times from people who have never talked to each other. [1:43:37] Yeah, it's like we have this very simple understanding of objects and of space and the ability to move around in them. Yeah. [1:43:46] this kind of [1:43:48] spectacular technology. I think we kind of have to think about it just like all other spectacular technology. Like if you were around in the 1400s, you couldn't possibly imagine the concept of a nuclear bomb. It would be impossible or nuclear energy. [1:44:02] Or even a cell phone. Yeah. Now, imagine new breakthroughs happen, and now... [1:44:08] This bubble gets created, and we start to figure out how to send things to places through these bubbles, and then we realize that what's happening in these bubbles is not what you see on the outside, that it's completely warping, which is also one of the weird questions like why are UFOs so blurry? That answers that question because Hal says it, and I loved when he revealed this because it just checks the box. [1:44:38] - Thank you. [1:44:39] A space-time bubble, basically. The warping of space-time. So the analogy would be like, you know, if you go under the ocean, you take a picture of a fish, you're going to get better visibility. You're in their domain, right? You're in their environment, right? Right. But if you go above...

[1:44:53] the ocean, right? You're now in a different environment and you try taking a photo from above the water, it's going to be all distorted. [1:45:00] And wacky looking because you're taking a photo through a barrier, another environment, right? It's the same basic logic. Like try taking a picture of koi fish from above the water. You can't do it, right? And so – [1:45:14] That's just the simplest answer. That's what they're doing. They are warping space-time in a localized area. They're creating a barrier between our environment and their environment. And when you try to take a photo through it, it's not great. It's also the reason why radar has trouble getting these things because the radar detector – [1:45:29] A radar detector, the way it works is [1:45:31] Radar is emitted towards an object. It bounces back to the radar detector, and that's how you track where it is, right? But the radar is just going around the bubble. [1:45:40] And it's not going back to the radar detector. [1:45:43] because it's just [1:45:45] Going around the bubble. [1:45:46] It's a different environment, right? And supposedly we can do that now? [1:45:51] Well... [1:45:51] The interview subjects clearly imply that... [1:45:55] some of the UAP, not implied, they state that some of the UAP we're seeing, [1:45:59] Might be our reverse engineer technology. Might be. [1:46:03] And is there... [1:46:04] Is there any theories about other potential methods of propulsion rather than just this bubble? Is anything done in a more traditional way? Is there levels of these things when it comes to the technological abilities? Not that I've heard. Everyone I interviewed that was willing to talk about the technology.

[1:46:23] was convinced this is what they were doing. That they're all doing a very similar thing. And it was a unifying theory. It explains everything we've ever observed. [1:46:30] Like... [1:46:31] All the... [1:46:33] all the performance characteristics we've observed UAP displaying. And so the theory is that all of these advanced beings from wherever they're from, the various different species of them, [1:46:45] that all of them have this particular type of technology. [1:46:49] Yeah. [1:46:50] Huh. [1:46:51] Which if it's the key to interstellar travel, then... [1:46:53] Kind of makes sense, but it's like, are they all figuring out – are they getting it from each other? Like, is this just a natural pathway to curious, intelligent, innovative creatures that they ultimately eventually stumble upon this technology? Well, one of the things shared that I found fascinating was this idea that – [1:47:12] some of the craft that we've recovered and adversarial nations have recovered. [1:47:18] Weren't crash crafts and weren't crafts that they caused to crash. They were crafts that just appeared outside a military base, almost like a gift. Yeah. Diana Pasolka discusses them as donations. So gifts, donations. But the thought, if you try to explain that, why would anyone do that? Maybe... [1:47:36] some more advanced species is trying to help advance us and try to like put a carrot on a stick. Yeah. Maybe it's, you know, survival of the fittest for the nations of, of, of earth. You know, maybe it's a big IQ test. Who knows what it is, but that's an interesting scenario. And, and, [1:47:51] Seems intentional from whoever put it there. Well, it would make sense if they were trying to help, that that would be like the least intrusive way. Instead of like coming down, hello, let me show you how to do this. Instead of doing that, just like, hey, figure this out, stupid. Get all your brightest people. And at the very least, you'll figure something out. Yeah. And maybe that's what they're saying, that these things have gone into some sort of a commercial application. I just want to know what those things are. Yeah. Because this was the thing that I was getting at with Bell Laboratory.

[1:48:21] Bell Labs was... [1:48:24] This is the – the conspiracy theory is that some of the material that was retrieved from Roswell was then transported to Bell Labs for some sort of a back engineering program and that there's a reason why there was a military base right outside of Bell Labs. And the idea was that military base is supposed to be guarding New York City. But the New York City is like kind of far away. Like you'd want to be a little closer if you're guarding New York City. And it's much more likely that it was actually just guarding this laboratory and that there was a company called the American Computer Company. [1:48:54] American Computer Company, are they still around? [1:48:57] see if they still have this page it's a very wacky page [1:49:02] Um, [1:49:03] So – [1:49:03] They would just... [1:49:05] They made made-to-order computers. Like you would call it up, I want a, you know, whatever, 5 gigahertz Intel processor, blah, blah, blah. And they would do it all for you. I want a 2-terabyte hard drive. They would set it all up for you and send it to you. And then they had a whole section of their website that was dedicated to back-engineering technology from Bell Labs and how it all happened. [1:49:35] had come specifically from the discoveries that they had made from the back engineering of a craft that was down at Roswell. [1:49:43] Yeah. Which is also, by the way, Roswell was a site of a lot of nuclear testing. Yeah. [1:49:48] I was told that... [1:49:50] people say in the film that Roswell did in fact happen. There was a crash. Four non-human bodies were in

[1:49:57] The craft and recovered and the technology, the craft materials and the bodies were sent to Wright-Patt Air Force Base. Right. In Ohio, which is very close to Battelle. [1:50:07] Right? [1:50:08] And then maybe that's the reason why Bell Labs is near a military base. Maybe it's more about proximity to... [1:50:19] a base that can have recovery teams quickly deployed, come back with materials, and then get them to a facility close by without... [1:50:27] the need for moving them across the country. And that would also, if it was true, would also be one of the first examples of this coordination between government and defense contractors, government and scientists that were commercially working. Yeah. And that they somehow or another arranged – [1:50:45] to get these brightest minds to, hey, [1:50:47] What's this? How does this work? Is that computer company still around? [1:50:51] Well... [1:50:52] I don't think so, but I just stumbled across something. [1:50:56] another story about the Bell Labs story? No, they say a letter from the guy that says he's the head of American Computer Company. Hmm. [1:51:03] What is he saying? I just found it as you asked the question. [1:51:07] Trying to see why this was relevant. This was like... [1:51:10] Back... I want to say it might have been like... [1:51:13] the 90s, late 90s or early 2000s when I first started going online. And I found out about them because... [1:51:20] I used to make my own computers back then, so I'd go and get a motherboard and hard drive and do all that stuff. That's cool. It was fun. For gaming, it was really fun because you could set it up with powerful video cards and everything like that. But there was a bunch of companies that –

[1:51:33] would sell like really high end put together computers so you didn't have to go through all that work. And so I was just looking at companies that make computers, made to order Windows computers. And I found them and I was like, what? What the fuck is this? Do they still have that up? That's wild. I that I don't know. I started to try to find it. [1:51:54] I thought I found it. What about the Wayback Machine? Well, this article that I found, it says it's extracted from Nexus Magazine. [1:52:03] 1999. [1:52:05] You know, the thing about, when you think about what could be Versus Inchion. Hold on. What is it? He says everything you talked about. Yeah? I'll show up. Can you see it? It's very long. Oh, okay. It's all written, but it talks about alien craft. [1:52:19] Yeah. Okay. So it said, so now not only do we have a picture of the alleged alien craft on our website talking about alien technologies being transferred to AT&T, but we're also in possession of a very high level, level five top secret security clearance military system. [1:52:35] Fax is describing something called Sky Station. [1:52:38] Hm. [1:52:39] What? [1:52:45] Bottom of the page is a nav bar pointer. [1:52:47] Is that website still up? Click on it. We'll see what we got here. [1:52:52] just in case I'm weird. Nope. [1:52:56] That was not the exact answer. That's gone, son. [1:52:59] it's a website yeah but that's a bullshit website [1:53:02] That's not the American Computer Company website, is it?

[1:53:05] No, that's just like American priority payment systems. What is this? Who bought them? Do you know? I don't know. [1:53:12] Probably the fucking government, man. [1:53:15] But this is talking about everything you just said, but although that's why I was trying to figure out where, what, what this is. It's, uh, [1:53:21] websites [1:53:23] I don't know, reverse engineering, Roswell UFO technology. Look at this. It says here, the symbol for the transistor is made up of three pieces, positive, positive, and negative, or negative, negative, and positive. Silicon dioxide doped with arsenic and boron in 1947. Now, 1947, doping things with boron was not easy. It required the sort of equipment that even Bell Labs in 1946 did not possess. [1:53:53] But it would have taken thousands and thousands and thousands of man hours to invent the transistor. [1:53:59] If you look back at it historically, what AT&T was claiming was that one day this genius, William Shockley, working with a rectifier – [1:54:09] He looked at it and noticed that it had unusual propensities, and there, bingo, he invented the transistor. He figured it out right there. And to verify that, the two other geniuses that they got to help work with him on the transistor, Dr. Barden and Dr. Brattain, both said, oh, yeah, I remember the guy by his name already. [1:54:32] by the name of the case, was allegedly talking about transistors in 1931, and I knew back then we were going to have them.

[1:54:40] He said that is the history of the transistor at AT&T prior to 1948, other than claiming it was invented in December of [redacted address]. Shockley. Anybody believe that story? Me neither. And I knew because the administrative head of the transistor project was Jack Morton, the man at whose house I was staying to go to school and whose sons I was friends with. [1:55:10] for the transistor, and he didn't. And I always wondered, because he too didn't possess the scientific ability to develop the transistor. He was a brilliant man who had invented... [1:55:22] the radio broadcast vacuum tube, the closed space triode, but it appeared that he was brought in to head up the project to try to draw back the transistor in time to radio tubes, and the image that Shockley talked about, [1:55:39] And it was as if the whole thing was just a ploy and he might, [1:55:44] as easily have been given responsibility and gotten the Nobel Prize as Bill Shockley. Hmm. [1:55:50] Professional jealousy, it says, question mark. [1:55:52] Wow. So there's questions about the invention of the transistor according to these guys. But it's also fiber optics. And it's the things that – what they're saying is that these things kind of came out of nowhere. Came out of nowhere, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [1:56:06] It's hard not to line it up, you know? Yeah. [1:56:08] And what certainly lines up time-wise...

[1:56:11] Yeah. With the Roswell crash. [1:56:13] And... [1:56:14] the labs working on these things being close proximity to bases that are known for... [1:56:19] recoveries and reverse engineering. Around Roswell, the engineers [1:56:24] the Army Air Corps engineers that were based at Wright-Patt, [1:56:27] were literally the expert reverse engineers of the Army Air Corps. Like, that's who was based there. [1:56:33] That's so crazy. Yeah, and people forget at the time it was the Army Air Corps at Roswell, you know? Yeah. And the – yeah, I mean the dots all line up, you know? The other thing to think about with what technology has been cracked is just because we haven't seen it yet doesn't mean they didn't crack it. Like typically, you know, if you just look at like – [1:56:50] aerospace like fighters and stuff [1:56:52] our black projects are like 30 years out. [1:56:55] Mm-hmm. You know? Right, right. So... Right. They might have come up with something... [1:57:00] Truly extraordinary. Is it 30 years out? That 10 people know about. Thinking about it in like 1990 and 2000 times? Or is it 30 years out now? Because technology is obviously moving at an exponential pace. [1:57:12] Thank you. [1:57:12] I mean... Is it really still... Because 30 years from now, I feel like we have a digital god. Yeah, no, it's... So I can't believe that they're 30 years out. It's 30, for sure. Really? Yeah, and multiple intelligence officials have told me. Even the people who are not dealing with UAP, they're just working at, like, Defense Intelligence Agency. They're, like, aerospace experts. They're looking at our... They have to be aware of our black projects that are 30 years out and adversaries projects that are 30 years out. And... [1:57:39] I mean, that stuff's wild. I talked to a very senior intelligence official who is in his...

[1:57:44] 80s, [1:57:45] who in the 70s, [1:57:47] mid-70s, was working on... [1:57:50] quantum entanglement for the CIA. [1:57:52] What? Yeah. [1:57:54] No one heard about quantum entanglement, I think, until like 15 years ago. Yeah, so how was he working on quantum entanglement? Didn't get into the details. That was the headline I got, and it's a super serious guy. [1:58:05] Thank you. [1:58:06] But that was the headline I got. He was doing fringe. [1:58:09] French science work dealing with quantum entanglement for the CIA and the DOD in the mid-70s. And quantum entanglement under what end? As a method of distribution of information? Unclear. Unclear. I wouldn't want to assume, but that was the headline. [1:58:28] And that's it was said to me in the context of. [1:58:32] when the public hears about something existing, [1:58:35] It's long after it's existed. [1:58:37] in terms of black project science, you know? And, and, um, so it just makes you think like, you know, if, if things have come off the back of this technology and some of it has been commercialized, actually like put into like hypersonic missiles or whatever it is, transistor radio, whatever, what hasn't, you know, what's just been kept in a box, you know? Um, [1:58:56] That's pretty wild to think about. But the reality is, I mean, all of that leads me to just – I really feel like if we get into this era of transparency – [1:59:04] And everyone knows it's real. And all scientists know it's a valid area of inquiry. And all the bright young minds out there that are in high school or college right now know this is something they can put their brain power towards. [1:59:12] So much amazing stuff could come out of it.

[1:59:15] Yeah. Like think about the space race. 35,000 inventions, they say, came out of the space race, like Velcro and a bunch of other stuff. Right, right. I think the fear would be that the openness would also lead to espionage. [1:59:26] Because we already have a problem with that. We already have a problem with agents of the CCP that infiltrate technology companies and get busted, and it happens at universities. It's an issue. [1:59:39] And if it was open transparency and they were just bringing in all the brightest minds like – [1:59:44] You know? [1:59:45] Maybe, but maybe it's like the amnesty thing. Maybe it just needs to happen for the greater good. Yeah, that's the question. Look, if both the United States and China are literally on the brink, maybe it's a conversation that needs to be had for the greater good of humanity. Yeah. Yeah. [1:59:59] You know, that this... [2:00:01] this notion that we are the only intelligent life that we've so far observed in the universe is a lie. [2:00:08] and that where they come from, whether they're interdimensional or whether interstellar or whatever they are, [2:00:14] There's something other than us that's more advanced than us. They can do things that we can't do and that we've learned from them. [2:00:22] And despite our differences... [2:00:23] we have a lot in common in the situation and that we're all in it together. That's the Reagan speech. [2:00:28] Yeah, that famous Reagan speech at the UN. [2:00:31] The two famous president speeches that I now look through [2:00:33] I look at it in completely different ways. Reagan's speech at the United Nations where he says, I often think [2:00:38] despite our differences, what will unite us is a [2:00:41] Threat. [2:00:42] from outside this planet. Yeah. You know, that brought us all together and remind us of our common bonds as humans, you know. But the other speech, well, first of all, that one, why do you often think that, Ronald Reagan? Right. Why is Reagan saying that? You're the president. Why are you often thinking this? Gave so many people hope. So many dorks like me. Yeah, maybe really. Well, the other one is the Eisenhower speech about the military industrial complex. Yes. Where he warned us. And he warned us at a time where we now know that.

[2:01:07] the legacy program was already getting very powerful and empowering defense contractors to reverse-engineering this technology. And he warns, he says, very, very, very... [2:01:19] Clearly, [2:01:20] that the ability exists and will persist. [2:01:23] for unchecked power [2:01:25] that would threaten our democratic process and get us – basically he's saying, well, get us a place where the contractors are going to have more power than Congress. And here we are in 2025 with leaders in Congress – [2:01:34] And our Secretary of State saying that's literally what happened. That's literally the situation right now. The president is out of the mix. Congress is out of the mix. The people are in the mix. And military... [2:01:44] contractors, the [2:01:45] military industrial complex, is in control, has unchecked power, [2:01:49] And just waits out sitting presidents. It's wild to listen to his full speech through that context and know that that's what he was talking about. And it came to fruit. [2:01:57] Yeah. Yeah. [2:01:58] And it's 80 years later. We're like, oh, he's right. [2:02:00] And the thing is, that speech was... [2:02:03] He did that live on the air to the world, and people didn't really get a chance to watch it until the Internet. [2:02:10] Because most people, you'd have to read about it or you'd have to go somewhere and find some 35 millimeter footage. Yeah. [2:02:18] and strap it onto a projector and go watch him say that. Most people never saw it. You didn't see it until the internet came around, and then people had encoded it and turned it into YouTube videos. Super powerful speech. There's a third one that I looked through a different lens now. [2:02:33] which is... [2:02:34] Not long before he was killed, Kennedy gave a speech about how

[2:02:38] secrecy [2:02:39] is repundant secret societies yes are and he said are repundant in a free society and they challenge our democratic way of life and we shouldn't allow it yeah yeah [2:02:49] Look where that got him. [2:02:52] Exactly. Yeah, he was literally taking on secret societies. I mean, he wanted to disband the CIA. He had a lot of ideas. [2:03:02] Look, I hope that [2:03:04] people [2:03:05] Involve us at like the CIA. [2:03:07] or at these defense contractors realize, like you said, they have a moment here to be the heroes of the story. Yes. And to spin it. [2:03:13] And just say, hey, we were taking on a job that no one else knew existed. We were doing the best we could. [2:03:19] We thought we made good decisions. Like any war, there's casualties of war, right? [2:03:24] But our intention was to do the best for the United States. [2:03:30] come out and tell everyone what we've learned in a safe way where we can share some information, educate the public with the base facts, and then keep the rest classified for national security reasons. These people would all just be – Heroes. Heroes. They go down in history. We would be stunned though. I mean the United States – I think if the full extent – if these people are telling the truth, if the full extent of this cover-up was ever revealed, we would probably be baffled. Like, wow. [2:03:55] They lied for so long. They covered up so much. And then there would be the anger at the misappropriation of funds and a lot of finger pointing. And then there would be the very real problem of defense contractors getting access to back-engineered information.

[2:04:11] equipment where other defense contractors were not. So they would have an unfair advantage competitively. Yeah. I mean, look, a bunch of defense contractors went out of business over the years. [2:04:22] You'd also have to look back at some of the older defense contractors that were given materials in the 40s and 50s and then got acquired by a Lockheed or a Northrop. Lockheed and Northrop bought all of the... [2:04:34] Smaller defense contractor. This episode is brought to you by Visible. How many of you are currently listening to this podcast on your phone? If you are chronically online, like most of us are these days, your wireless network should be too. With Visible, you get unlimited 5G and unlimited hotspot, all powered by Verizon's 5G network, the perks of big wireless for half the cost. Visible isn't just a wireless plan. [2:05:04] It's unlimited wireless designed to keep you connected and no contract holding you back. Switch today at Visible.com. Plan start at just $25 a month. Or get our premium Visible Plus Pro plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code ROGAN, an exclusive offer for podcast listeners. [2:05:29] This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew, the number one brand for better sex. Blue Chew just dropped something crazy. Blue Chew Gold. Blue Chew has made it easy for 5 million men to get hard, but now they've made it easier to get horny too. Blue Chew Gold gets your brain and body on the same page fast. Other options just help blood flow, but gold combines

[2:05:59] and two, boost arousal and intimacy. So for a good time, go to BlueChew.com. And we've got a special deal for our listeners right now. When you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third free with promo code ROGAN. You also receive an additional 10% off plus free overnight shipping on your first order. Visit BlueChew.com for more details and important safety information. Blue Chew is number one for a reason. [2:06:28] that have been involved with this over the years. Really? Yeah. Yeah, a bunch of them. So those are the big ones? Yeah. Lockheed and Northrop? Northrop. [2:06:37] Raytheon. [2:06:38] And, um... [2:06:39] So didn't they all have access? Yeah. [2:06:42] Elements of them. I mean, you can't look at just like you can't look at the government as all one big entity. You can't look at like it's not like everybody at Lockheed Martin knows about human technology. Right. [2:06:51] Um, but... [2:06:52] there are people that are in control of that situation. And [2:06:57] This comes from multiple people I interviewed in my film. [2:07:00] They all said the exact same names. [2:07:03] Jeez. Yeah. No, it's fascinating. Did you ever go down – how much of a rabbit hole have you gone down on the remote viewing stuff? I've gone down a few rabbit holes. Yeah. It's fascinating what they have actually been able to do with it. The Hal put off story about the crashed Soviet craft that they found, that this remote viewer guy found, like within a three-mile radius – [2:07:25] Located it exactly. [2:07:27] Jimmy Carter put a statement out about it. Yeah. There's audio of Jimmy Carter telling that story. See if we can find that. It's wild, man. Yeah. We'll try to find that because that is pretty crazy. The thing that I find the most fascinating about it, aside from just –

[2:07:40] it's real, is the connection with UAP. [2:07:45] And [2:07:46] there are people who have had UAP encounters and then end up with these abilities for remote view. [2:07:53] And that is... [2:07:54] That as well as like there's a biological effect. [2:07:57] Of an encounter. Hmm. Yeah. There's a big book that... [2:08:01] I've been a part of developing that's going to come out next year. Um, [2:08:05] It's a memoir. [2:08:06] It's been publicized a little bit under a pseudonym. Scott Andrews is the name, but that's not his real name. He was an intelligence official who, as a kid, had a UAP encounter, and then late in life – [2:08:22] had a medical issue that no one could explain, and then they found that he had these amoebas in his body that should have killed him. [2:08:31] Bye. [2:08:31] there was no reason why he should be alive. And he had an immediate brain surgery. And after he had the brain surgery, when he was healing, [2:08:37] certain memories started to come back, and all of a sudden he was able to remote view. [2:08:41] And he didn't understand what he was doing. He talked to some other intelligence officials who told him what you're doing is called remote viewing. People are trained to do that. But he was doing it like he had done it before. Like Jason Bourne, like, you know, these skills are coming back, right? And around that time... [2:08:56] And he found, when he was healing, he was out of the hospital, he found a locked file cabinet in his father's office. His father passed away. In the cabinet was a bunch of files about his life, organized by the year. [2:09:09] Amongst the files were his... [2:09:10] enlistment paperwork in the US Air Force as a child, like 12 or 13 years old, which is not legal. And then his honorable discharge at 18. And the service code was Space Intelligence Communications. And the base was the old Space Force base, like straight up real documents. And then he went to his mother, who was still alive, and said, do you know anything about this?

[2:09:31] And she said, I don't know anything about it, but she's like, do you remember when you were a kid and you saw that UFO? And he didn't really remember. She starts jogging his memory. She said, you saw this UFO come out of this. [2:09:41] this lake, I don't know, the lake or a pond, and [2:09:44] He's like, now I do remember. She's like, remember you ran home and you told me and dad? And she said, all I know is the next day those men from the Air Force came to talk to you with your dad. [2:09:53] And then I never heard anything else about it. And so – [2:09:56] Where this story goes is [2:09:58] unpacking this connection between UAP encounters and [2:10:03] while there's some biological effects that are bad, there are some that are also, if you call it a gift, I don't know if you'd call it a gift or a curse, but like... Unlocking a potential, perhaps. Unlocking a potential is a great way to put it, yeah. And then the Air Force being... The story also unveils how... [2:10:17] On top of it, the Air Force is. So they went and recruited this young kid. [2:10:21] and his father. [2:10:22] to become part of a secret program where we still don't know exactly what he did. [2:10:26] But he was used... [2:10:28] for this ability, and the service code was Space Intelligence Communications. And it's a wild story. There's a lot more to it. I could talk to you about it for like four hours, but it's one of the most mind-blowing stories ever ever. [2:10:40] this specific person is extremely high ranking. Like his resume reads like a movie character. It's like, it's, it's bonkers. He's like, you know, [2:10:50] At one point he was running like a... [2:10:54] I don't remember the exact title, but essentially he was like running counterterrorism for North America. He's like a really high level dude.

[2:11:01] he ended up... [2:11:05] getting... [2:11:06] because of his stature in the intelligence community, he ended up, [2:11:09] getting help from [2:11:11] people in the Department of Defense to piece together this hidden past he has. And he actually is in the process of getting approved for anonymous health injury status from the Secretary of Defense. So this program that he was involved in as a child, does he have any recollection? No recollection. [2:11:27] His wife was like a gumshoe detective about it. [2:11:30] She starts calling. They see in the files there was... [2:11:34] records of days of school he missed, excused absences, for huge periods of time. [2:11:40] I don't remember exactly whether it was weeks or months, but it was huge periods of time. So his wife calls the school and starts digging and asks... [2:11:47] you [2:11:47] what was your policy back then? Would someone have had to repeat a grade if they missed this much time? And they said, absolutely. Unless you had a really good reason or some sort of serious medical excuse, you would have been held back. He was never held back. [2:12:02] He has no memory of missing all these days of school. [2:12:04] His friends that he grew up with don't remember it. [2:12:06] But there's all this documentation. His friends don't remember him not being in school. No. That seems weird. They inquired. Yeah, totally weird. Totally weird. [2:12:13] Totally weird. [2:12:15] Um... [2:12:16] So has he undergone hypnotic regression? He hasn't done that. He's been dealing with a lot of serious medical issues, like... [2:12:24] very serious, almost dying multiple times from a lot of these... [2:12:31] The correct word, by the way, is parasites. I think I said amoebas. Parasites. He had parasites in his body that almost killed him multiple times. What kind of parasites?

[2:12:42] He and his doctor said – his doctor told him would have killed him within a month. I don't remember the exact names. I wouldn't pretend to be a medical scientist or anything like that. Does he have any suspicions as to how he acquired these parasites? Yeah, he thinks that whatever program he was involved with – [2:12:56] did [2:12:58] did bizarre experiments. [2:12:59] That's what he thinks. And he thinks that he was supposed to not remember any of this. [2:13:05] The parasite issues caused brain surgery. The memories came back. [2:13:09] Yeah, and he ended up, there's a lot more to the story after he started socializing, what he was experiencing. [2:13:16] Um... [2:13:17] there were multiple attempts on his life. [2:13:20] that have been documented and investigated by real intelligence agencies. [2:13:24] He's like a serious dude, and he's doing his tell-all memoir. [2:13:30] It's a really great book. It's almost done, and Simon Schuster is going to publish it next year. [2:13:35] So there's multiple attempts on his life because of which, does he have an understanding? Like, was he threatened? He thinks it's because what he was involved with was supposed to stay in the past. He wasn't supposed to remember it. When he was a child? Yeah. And so they want to kill him? [2:13:50] Wouldn't that make it even more suspicious? Well, it depends on how you're... No, probably not. Probably not because they could just get away with it. What kind of attempts on his life? [2:13:58] Um, directed energy weapons. What? Yeah. Yeah. [2:14:03] Yeah. [2:14:04] Like, it's... [2:14:05] The guy was having actual symptoms of a directed energy weapon attack. [2:14:10] and he [2:14:11] knew what those circumstances were from his career.

[2:14:15] these were symptoms of that. And they, a proper investigation was done by real authorities and they found evidence of it, like etching in the windows and, [2:14:24] etching in the windows if a direct engine weapon goes through glass it causes etching in the windows [2:14:30] So they're literally physically targeting him with something from a drone, from space? Who knows? I mean, these are like the list of questions that this story... So the idea is like, let's just give this guy cancer or just nuke him and... [2:14:42] Take him out. [2:14:44] That's what it seems, yeah. Because he's talking too much about this program. That's what it seems. And then if it comes out, we're fucked. [2:14:50] Yeah, that's what it seems. Because probably what they did is highly illegal, especially if they did it to a child. Well, I don't think you can legally enlist... [2:14:57] In the military when you're... [2:14:58] 13. [2:15:00] He probably wasn't the only one. Yeah. [2:15:02] And so if they do have some sort of an ability to erase memory. [2:15:08] That's what it would seem. [2:15:09] Which also lines up with, you know, I talked to one of the stories I left out of the film. [2:15:13] I talked to the base commander from Rendlesham. [2:15:17] the joint US-UK base in the UK. [2:15:21] where there was a huge UAP event in the 80s. And the base commander told me on the record, on camera, that the day after the event, an airplane landed... [2:15:30] People from the CIA. [2:15:32] and Air Force Intelligence... [2:15:34] showed up [2:15:35] with authority, [2:15:36] and demanded to speak to the witnesses. And the base commander was told to leave the room. [2:15:41] He didn't know until years later... [2:15:43] that all those servicemen that experienced this, they were all told to...

[2:15:48] Share the details, and they were given a drug, I think it was called, is this correct, sodium pemphial? Is that how you say it? [2:15:53] Penetrol? That's the truth serum, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were given that to share what they experienced. And then they were all asked if they'd ever been hypnotized. And someone was there who hypnotized them. [2:16:08] As crazy as that sounds. [2:16:13] Wow. [2:16:14] the base commander telling me this on camera to my face. [2:16:19] He also said they took away something in crates the next day on this airplane, and he never got clarity on what it was. And the third thing that he revealed that I don't think anyone's ever talked about with Randlesham is he revealed that the day after the event, he went and talked to the people in the communications room, the old school wires in the mall and stuff, and the head of the communications on the base said, [2:16:39] told him, [2:16:40] that the entire night of the event, while he was out in the woods dealing with the event, the whole base was on communication lockdown. All lines were shut down except the direct line between the base and the White House. [2:16:51] which it's called, I believe, I don't want to mess this up, but I believe it's called Flash Override. [2:16:57] which is only used for... [2:17:00] Nuclear war. [2:17:01] or imminent threat of nuclear war. [2:17:03] So like the most extreme circumstances where you need a direct line between the base and the president. [2:17:08] whoa yeah [2:17:09] It's one of the unfortunate things I had to cut for time. [2:17:12] Hardest thing about making this movie, man, was my director's cut was like four hours, and I had to get this down to something that was consumable. Did you ever think about making it like a Netflix thing or multi-piece? I did. I did think about it. What about a director's cut? Would you ever do that? I'll probably – I'll think about doing that, or maybe let's do a sequel. Maybe let's do a follow-up and put some of the stuff that is a bridge too far into the next thing once the table's been set. That sounds good. This was the question I was going to get to with that. You've worked on legitimate films. Yeah.

[2:17:42] Big blockbuster Hollywood films. Yeah, man. Ready Player One. Amazing film. I love that movie. Thank you. [2:17:49] Are you locked into this kind of shit now? Because here's the problem that happens. When people start going down this rabbit hole, it kind of consumes them. Look, it's definitely been a consuming endeavor, this movie. I mean, this thing has consumed my life for four years, and I had to – [2:18:02] it's a whole other conversation, but I had to make this movie in secrecy [2:18:05] because at the offset, when I started getting real intelligence officials to lean in, [2:18:09] They told me to my face. They were like... [2:18:12] And it's not in your best interest to promote the fact you're doing this. Don't announce people doing it. Don't let the world know about it until you put a trailer out. There's going to be people who are going to try to cause problems for you. So I had to make this in secrecy. I ended up doing posts out of my house. Really? My fiance is a saint. [2:18:27] Allie Feinstein is a saint for putting up with that. Did you have a crew at your house? Yeah, man. Yeah. And it was, uh, it was all consuming. And, um, and yes, it, this, this topic is a rabbit hole you become consumed with. I look, I'm still going to do movies and TV shows that have nothing to do with UAP for sure. And I'm developing some and I, and I, and I, and I think I'll probably make some next year, but, um, yeah. [2:18:51] At the same time, I want to do more in this space and these adjacent spaces. Like I mentioned Jay Stratton's book I'm working really hard on. I'm also going to develop a series based on Jay Stratton's life. [2:19:03] which is this remarkable 16-year rabbit hole of investigating non-human intelligent life and UAP for the U.S. government. I'm working with some other people that are in my film on their life stories. And then the book I just told you about.

[2:19:16] that crazy remote viewing story. Yeah. I'm developing a movie about that. [2:19:21] Oh, like a fiction, like a dramatization? Yeah. Picture the vibe of the insider, the Russell Crowe Al Pacino movie, but with that story. Oh. Like that kind of vibe, right? Who do you want to play that guy? Do you have someone in mind? I have a few people in mind. [2:19:35] Don't want to say too soon. [2:19:36] There's a few people in mind. What about Russell Crowe? Russell Crowe would be amazing for it. [2:19:39] And he's really into the topic. Oh, yeah. He would love it. He would love it. Yeah. And he's only interested in doing interesting things now. Yeah. You know? Yeah. He's got all the money in the world. Yeah. He'd be amazing for it. [2:19:52] There's a lot of good ideas for that one. But I do want to still do stuff outside this topic for sure. I'm really fascinated with the remote viewing topic. I think I have a desire to do... [2:20:03] In the same way that [2:20:04] The age disclosure is the definitive doc on what we now know that can be lawfully disclosed about UAP and non-human intelligence life. I really want to try to endeavor to do this. [2:20:14] that version of the remote viewing story. That would be amazing. Like the super credible, non-sensational. [2:20:19] It's got the coolest setup. Here's the setup for this thing. [2:20:24] Hal Putoff's working for the CIA and the DOD in the mid-70s. He's doing some spooky stuff. [2:20:31] Fringe science work. [2:20:32] Thank you. [2:20:33] his CIA handler, [2:20:35] who's his best friend and was in his wedding party, comes into his office, knocks on the door and says, we've got a problem we need your help with. [2:20:43] He says, what is it? He says... [2:20:45] Our operatives have found out that the Russians have a program.

[2:20:49] that they're 10 years into [2:20:50] where they have rounded up the best psychics. [2:20:53] in Russia, and they've trained them to use their psychic abilities to spy on American bases and our most secure facilities, and they're getting actionable intel. [2:21:03] Hal's, of course, like, holy shit. [2:21:05] That's the craziest thing I've ever heard, right? [2:21:07] The CIA guy says, yes, yes. [2:21:09] You've got a blank checkbook from the CIA and the DOD. [2:21:12] You've got X amount of time to catch up on their 10-year program. [2:21:15] We've got to beat them. [2:21:17] He then has to figure out [2:21:19] like how to go about finding people who have these abilities. Cause it's not like Russia where you just go round up a bunch of people and say, you're going to do this. Right. So he comes up with a clever system to bake, [2:21:27] into Army basic training. [2:21:30] testing that can identify people with these skill sets. And then you can pluck them up and have them come work for this program. You can help them sharpen their skill sets and you can train them to become remote viewers. To me that like, [2:21:41] That scene, it's like the Indiana Jones scene where the CIA comes in to Indiana Jones and says, you know, what do you know about the Ark of the Covenant? Oh, my God. And we've got this situation we need your help with, you know? It's wild, man. It's like the craziest setup of all time. And it's fascinating. And then the fact that... [2:21:58] they started getting real actionable intelligence that they were acting on. [2:22:01] Like the CIA was running missions based on his intel. [2:22:05] One day when I shot – I did so many interviews with Hal, but one day when we finished – [2:22:10] talking about the UAP topic, I had intentionally scheduled a few extra hours, and I was like, all right, Al, let's talk about Stargate. And I grabbed like three hours of the entire Stargate story. And it's fucking mind-blowing.

[2:22:21] And all the specific little stories of action that were taken based on their intel... [2:22:27] It is so wild and so compelling. And then when Stargate, at the time, Stargate was a deeply hidden program. [2:22:33] extremely secret [2:22:35] Highly classified. There was some leak, I think, that happened in the 90s where people heard about it. [2:22:40] Essentially, the government said, [2:22:42] Oh, it's not real. It didn't work. It was this thing we tried, you know? And all they did is they just moved it to another agency. [2:22:48] As far as I've had so many people tell me of their awareness of active remote viewing programs. Wow. Yeah. Have you tried to do it? [2:22:57] I have not tried to do it. Why not? But what I did try... [2:23:01] was [2:23:02] someone remote viewing [2:23:05] in a specific place where I was and... [2:23:09] they sent me a picture that they sketched out [2:23:12] that gave me fucking chills because they described exactly where I was standing when I was talking to them. And I don't think they had cameras in my house, which is the obvious question, right? Pretty wild. And I've, and there's others, there's other stories that I've heard from intelligence officials that I, I've gotten close with because of the UAP topic. [2:23:28] people who became aware of the remote viewing situation and would tell me these just like little stories like, [2:23:36] There was a [2:23:37] There was a pen drive, like a little drive with some data on it that had some UAP data on it. That intelligence official literally dropped. [2:23:48] while hiking. [2:23:49] out of their pocket. It was in their pocket. [2:23:51] And they dropped it. And they used a remote viewer to help them find it. Told them exactly where it was. They went and found it.

[2:23:56] It's crazy. [2:23:59] But then you go and you listen to this clip of Jimmy Carter talking about how remote viewers were used to find this down airplane. [2:24:05] And you're like, this guy was president of the United States. I definitely found a transcript and an article, but I think this is audio and I haven't been able to check it yet. There is a documentary. [2:24:13] I tried to find the documentary. There's a documentary called Third Eye Spy that has it as the opening scene. They described it differently than you. Change. And... [2:24:21] inexplicable event that has been discussed publicly is at one time we had a [2:24:27] a small plane go down somewhere in Africa. We needed very much to find out where that plane had crashed. And we were not able to find it by surveillance from our satellites. [2:24:41] So the director of the CIA, he was also director of all the intelligence agencies, [2:24:46] Thank you. [2:24:47] heard about a [2:24:49] woman in California that was a [2:24:52] Medium. [2:24:53] And he contacted her... [2:24:56] And she... [2:24:57] gave him [2:24:59] they [2:25:00] latitude and longitude of the plane's whereabouts. [2:25:05] And the next time one of our [2:25:07] space satellites went over [2:25:09] That area we located the plane where she said it was. [2:25:13] By the way, that's not even the one I was thinking of. He says it about a different thing, about a plane that went down, and I think it was Russia. And he specifically says we went to the remote viewing program for one of the best remote viewers, and they found it. But that's crazy. That's a sitting president. Oh, right. Fucking Jimmy Carter talking about a psychic being used to... Yeah.

[2:25:29] Do you think that that is an aspect of human consciousness that we used to be able to do? I do. [2:25:37] And that we've lost it somehow? Yeah. Yeah. I think there's just... [2:25:42] things we've evolved out of and things we've evolved into. And I think that that's, you know... Is that what they think as well? Yeah, yeah. [2:25:50] very involved in that topic for the government now, told me the analogy they would make is [2:25:55] It's like if you saw a basketball on the ground, anybody can pick the basketball up. If there's a hoop there, they can throw it at it, right? Right. If you sat back and watched a line of 100 people do it, [2:26:04] Some would look like clowns. Some would be like, oh, this guy has sign of potential. And then one out of every however many, like a thousand or whatever, it would be Michael Jordan, who's just like, boom. [2:26:13] Swish. This guy's a fucking natural, right? He's got this instinct. So everyone can do it. Everyone can pick up the ball and throw it at the hoop. [2:26:19] and some people have a natural instinct to do it better. [2:26:23] That's what they were trying to identify, and that's what they do try to identify. And the weird one is that people who have had encounters – [2:26:30] Yeah, so that to me is like... Like it breaks through some barrier that you have in your consciousness. When they communicate with you, all of a sudden now you have this wall that has been downed that allows you to have access to this forgotten aspect of human consciousness. Or somehow heightens it, you know? Yeah. The biological effects are real, so we know about the bad ones like cancer, but maybe one of the other ones is it heightens this ability somehow. [2:26:57] Have you ever taken any time into consideration of the possibility that human beings were

[2:27:02] We're a product of genetic engineering. [2:27:05] I mean it's kind of impossible to go out in this rabbit hole and not have the thought of are we just all a big – is this a big experiment? Right. And one day the experiment will end. Or not even just an experiment but an aiding in a process. Like they recognize a process where there's bipedal hominids of various intelligence and they accentuate that. [2:27:26] Yeah. And multiple different, probably multiple different attempts. Yeah. Yeah. [2:27:32] I mean, I've definitely thought about it, and I... [2:27:35] it would explain a lot. You know, there's all these missing gaps in our history. Well, that's also the weirdness of the book of Enoch. [2:27:41] The Book of Enoch is essentially describing watchers who come down from the sky and mate with women. [2:27:49] Yeah. [2:27:50] If you told that story for a thousand years and the real story was... [2:27:55] They came down, they got a hold of human babies and human mothers and introduced genetics to [2:28:03] that were... [2:28:04] Alien into into these children. That would be like they made it with women. Yeah, it would be kind of the same thing. Yeah, you know and created Well, they talk about the Nephilim giant who destroyed everything but that's kind of us well the other thing that makes me think of is a [2:28:18] a number of the people who have seen crafts and it's, [2:28:21] Uh, [2:28:22] Jay Stratton and Llewell Zondo say it in the film, that the craft at Roswell... [2:28:26] had hieroglyphics on it. Some kind of ancient writing. And they actually, I didn't put it in the film, but they talked about how when they learned that to be a fact, they spent a ton of time

[2:28:40] researching [2:28:41] ancient texts and trying to find a match. [2:28:44] And they couldn't find it. And the closest thing they could find was some old biblical text. [2:28:51] But whose hieroglyphics were these? What was that from? Yeah. [2:28:55] It's wild, man. How much would you give to see one? [2:28:58] to like please i'll stop making documentaries i won't talk to nobody just show me just take me into the hangar and show me this fucking thing that's what spielberg says he's you know all these years the guy made close encounters he made et you know war of the worlds um [2:29:14] TV shows about it and never seen one. [2:29:20] have you had anything that you've ever seen that you thought was weird? Yeah. Yeah, I have. I, um, [2:29:28] Actually, out in Ojai. [2:29:29] I don't know why. [2:29:30] my fiance and I were laying on a blanket while I was making this movie, looking at stars, and... [2:29:37] Saw what looked like a satellite. At first I thought it was going slow. And then this thing just fucking rocketed off. [2:29:43] Way up there. All it looked like was a star. [2:29:45] But it was not a start. It was not a satellite because it moved super fast and just darted across the sky. Out of nowhere. Yeah, up right above the Topatopa Mountains in Ojai. And then I actually, the next day, we said to the staff, we were on those little golf carts getting drove across this hotel property, and we told them we saw. And the guy goes, yeah, not going to lie, we see that stuff a lot out here. [2:30:05] It's like, wow, fascinating. Yeah. But that's the only thing I ever saw. Other stuff where I'm like witnessing firsthand the craziness of this coverup. One of the interview subjects I had at my house in Los Angeles prepping for an interview.

[2:30:19] We're in the middle of Berset Milarium. [2:30:21] I live in the suburbs of Los Angeles and what happened is not normal. Heard a very loud helicopter, ran outside. [2:30:30] I had my phone on me. [2:30:31] look up and there's a black helicopter right above my house. And the guy comes out of the house and looks up and then without missing a beat, [2:30:39] I always remember this. He's like, yeah, that'll happen. I'm like, what? [2:30:44] what the hell does get into, you know? So they're essentially letting you know that they know. Yeah. There's been a bunch of moments like that. Like, [2:30:51] Yeah. [2:30:52] Letting letting you know, that's that's the message. I immediately asked people on the Senate Intelligence Committee and Center Services Committee about that, if I should be worried. [2:31:00] They're basically like, they're just letting you know that they're aware of what you're doing. [2:31:04] It's them sending a message. They're watching you. [2:31:06] Try not to cross any lines. [2:31:08] They're like, that happens to everybody on the intelligence committee. I would imagine that those people, though, kind of want you to succeed. Even if they're letting – I think they want you to succeed in a way where you're not crossing any lines. And look, I went to great lengths. No one says anything classified on camera for me. There's none of that. I don't want to be – I want any part of that, right? Right. They only share what they lawfully can. And I think that – [2:31:31] I assumed after that that every phone call and every email – [2:31:35] was being observed. Oh yeah. And [2:31:37] Not only did I assume that, but I was told to assume that. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, the people on the – so there's a guy I'll give him a shout-out, John Estrich, who was on the Senate Intelligence Committee staff. He was the senior staffer for Rubio. He was the guy who –

[2:31:49] really led the charge on looking into this topic for Rubio and Warner on the Senate Intelligence Committee staff. He was extremely supportive to me behind the scenes. [2:31:58] helped vet people for me, helped send [2:32:01] introductions my way, help validate me with Rubio and Rounds. [2:32:06] extremely helpful. [2:32:09] He often had that same kind of activity at his house every time he'd have an important meeting. [2:32:13] Yeah. Yeah. And – Oh, God. Yeah. That'll fucking put – [2:32:20] some holes in your sails. Yeah. You know, like, slow down. But at the same time, maybe I need to go back to Ready Player Two. [2:32:30] It's like, fuck this. They go develop an Ocean's Eleven type movie. Yeah, I'm not interested in fucking helicopters being over my house. No, there's been, there's been, look, there's a lot of people. [2:32:40] Thank you. [2:32:40] I don't want to go too into it, but... [2:32:43] As you can imagine, there's a lot of people that wish this movie didn't exist. I'm sure, yeah. They wish I never made it. [2:32:48] Of course. That tried to prevent it from getting released and went out of their way to cause problems. There's a lot of people that fit that description. [2:32:54] And [2:32:55] I became aware of a lot of them. I became aware of a lot of those concerns, and I just kind of like – [2:33:01] Just kind of put blinders on and like, [2:33:03] you know had tunnel vision was like all right i'm not doing anything illegal i'm not going to do anything that's bad for the united states and that i think it's good for the united states i really do i think what that film is good for just human beings overall it's it's really important man i'm glad you did it it was really excellent thank you i'm glad i got to see it at south by southwest and i was like man this has got to get distributed like how does this get out there yeah you know despite

[2:33:29] South by, we did two screenings, 1,100 seats at the Paramount Theater, standing ovations, lines around the block. The trailer I put out in January quickly got like 20 million views. Despite that, all the major distributors and major streamers. [2:33:42] Thank you. [2:33:43] They watched it. They loved it. They said all these great things, but then they didn't end up... [2:33:47] They didn't end up moving forward. And, you know, I don't think it's naive to think that – [2:33:56] Other parties might have discouraged people. Yes, I would imagine that. How can people watch it? So on Friday the 21st. [2:34:04] which is tomorrow. [2:34:05] which is tomorrow, or today, the thing that wind drops. It'll drop today. Today. So it's today for people listening and watching. Today, February 21st. Jesus, February. Today, November 21st. They've got an amoeba in your brain, bro. Today, November 21st, worldwide on Prime Video. You can rent it. [2:34:24] you can buy it [2:34:26] I made subtitles for every single major language. It's available in every single country around the world where Prime Video is available. And you can also see it in the movie theater in New York, Los Angeles, and D.C. And I really encourage everyone in the world to watch this thing and make it a conversation with their friends and family. I think it's the most interesting conversation you can have around Thanksgiving dinner next week. [2:34:45] It is really good, man, and you should be very proud of it. And I hope it gets distributed even wider after the success of the Amazon Prime thing because I think it's going to take off. Thank you. Yeah, I hope that's the case. And then, yeah, I do think there will be a follow-up. Well, do have a follow-up, baby. Come back. And definitely if you do a remote viewing one too. I want to hear about more. Hell yeah. Thank you very much for being here, man. It was awesome. Thank you for having me. And your documentary is really, really excellent. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Bye, everybody. Bye.

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