#2449 - Raul Bilecky

[00:00] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day! [00:12] Raul, Joe, very nice to meet you, brother. It's so good to be here. I have enjoyed your content tremendously online. [00:18] And I really got into a video this morning that I was watching where you found this megalithic site that was undocumented in Peru. It's incredible that they still have these ancient sites. [00:32] that for whatever reason, it seems like [00:35] The money that they get [00:38] get stolen? Like the money that is supposed to be allocated towards documenting these things and registering these things, people just say, fuck it, I'm going to pocket it and... [00:49] It happens a lot more than you think. I just – [00:52] Hard to believe, man. Some of the stuff that you document is very heartbreaking, right? [00:57] Like one of them was when you flew a drone over these ancient ruins and you showed the amount of places that have been looted. Oh, yeah. And it's just all of it. It's just pop. You see these holes. And when I first saw that, I'm like, what is what is he showing me? And then you're like, these are all spots where someone has dug in and looted. And most of it has been done. [01:25] in this area of Peru over the last 20 years. Over the last 20 years. So from 2006 to 2026, more... I would have...

[01:33] The biggest amount of looting happened, it's actually died down some, uh... [01:37] But the end of the 20s, so 1980s to 2010s, I would say. That's when it really – Like when it really took off. [01:47] And you can tell from the trash that's left there. Like cigarettes that were only produced in the 80s. Oh. Soda bottles that were only produced in the 90s. How nice of them to steal the artifacts and leave trash. [02:01] They've become... [02:02] landfills of human remains. It's this place you're talking about is I mean, it's [02:08] eight full kilometers of [02:11] It looks like the moon. Every single location has been looted. And I was like, I got to go up there and see what this looks like. And so – Pull up to the microphone a little bit more. [02:23] looting, what are they at that point in time, I mean, these are hundreds, thousands of years old, these sites, so what are they finding? Well, a lot of the mummies that I've, because I've found mummies that have been torn apart, literally, like they're [02:39] the cotton that they're wrapped in, the textiles that they're wrapped in. I mean, it's just, they've been scavenged. Are they looking for jewels? Or for some sort of metallurgy, like on the person themselves. Um... [02:51] The unfortunate thing is – I mean all you'll see is you'll just see these bones littered across the landscape with broken pieces of pottery and – That was also disturbing how much bones you see everywhere. So –

[03:03] This is a bone right there. [03:06] These are all human bones that you just find scattered. That's all cotton, and what we're about to see here is an actual mummy that's been torn apart. [03:17] This is so sad that there's no protection. [03:21] Nobody's going out there, man. [03:24] Nobody. [03:25] Except for the looters. But I know very little about Peru other than, you know, obviously the Nazca Lines, the mummies, all these different things, the mystery of the place. Keep showing that, please. Oh, it's over. [03:40] There's a couple burial drone shots. But it's just... [03:44] You go to the top. How big is Peru? Peru. [03:48] I don't even know geographically how large it is. I mean, Peru is huge. I mean, it takes up – this is another – this is a different looted site. [03:58] So this is all – this – all of this is in the Paracas Nazca Ica region. And these skulls are just sitting there? So the looters will oftentimes leave – [04:10] I don't know, set them up in this fashion. There isn't a site I've gone to where I haven't seen something set up like this in... [04:17] in the end. But so I pull out to show the scale of it. I mean, every little piece of white you see is, is, is, [04:26] some part of a human. [04:28] Wow. [04:31] It's tragic, man.

[04:33] Just so much history lost. [04:38] Does this stuff wind up in private collections? Do museums ever get it? What happens to that stuff? I don't think museums get it at all. It's private collections. [04:50] private buyers. I actually met a... The term is guacero. It's a grave robber. I actually met one in [04:58] Miraflores in Lima proper at one of the artisanalists where they're selling ancient goods. Well, some of them have real things that they go out and they loot and – [05:08] I mean that... [05:10] This is one of the things I've been thinking about, like, for the future, like, what... [05:14] what can be done about this because the government, nobody from the government's going out there. And so these things end up in private collections, textiles, humans. [05:25] pottery, things that you would see in museums. It's just nobody from that official... [05:30] Administration is taking the trip to go out there and preserve these things. It seems like just the ancient civilization of Peru is a massive mystery. It seems like there are a lot of uncovered stories about. [05:44] in that area. Peru is a hot spot. And it doesn't seem like there's an incredible amount of research being done other than by independent people. They, I mean, so... [05:57] - Yeah. [05:58] Joe, there's so much in Peru. I mean, you throw a stone and you're finding an ancient archaeological site. I mean, they're doing whenever they do construction, they end up coming across structures or bones.

[06:09] I mean, this last expedition, I went all over the country and there is no lack of archaeological sites. [06:17] The money and... [06:20] The money it would take to fund research on all these places is just extreme. [06:25] it's extreme um [06:27] I think there's a lot of history that goes missed because of what's currently happening. But a lot of times, a lot of the research is focused on what's going to bring tourism. [06:38] Like Machu Picchu and things along those lines, which is also insane. Phenomenal. It's just incredible. Like that place is like, what, why, how, why'd you build it up here? Fucking nuts. A good friend of mine just actually went, just recently took his family up to Machu Picchu. And he's like, it doesn't even make any sense, man. Dude, Machu Picchu is what started it. [07:01] My family's from Peru, and so I would grow up going there, and I have this old – [07:05] Back when you were filming with cameras with like a videotape, um... [07:09] There's footage of me finding seashells at Machu Picchu when I was like 10 years old. Back then, you could go wherever you wanted. You didn't have to stay on a path. And so I don't know. And for people that don't know, Machu Picchu is like, what, 12,000 feet above sea level? Yeah. And so I'm a kid. I mean, I still have the grainy footage, and I'm showing my dad on the camera. I'm like, Dad, Dad, look, I found seashells. I saw them in Machu Picchu. [07:33] inside of uh they were like glinting in the mud in the wall and so i took them out and that's what started this whole process for me i was just like that it blew my mind that there were seashells way up there and so i studied about earth cataclysms and ancient history and and when sea levels were different and that just that's that is a moment that started kind of this whole path for me how old were you at the time 10 or 12 wow

[07:58] Wow. Wow. [07:59] So how many times have you been there since? Well, growing up, we used to go every year and a half or so, and that's continued into my adulthood. It's only been recently, the past two years, that I've been doing what I've been doing, which is like hardcore solo expeditions. [08:16] This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Paramount+. UFC history is going down at the White House. It's the world's greatest fights on America's biggest stage. Watch UFC Freedom 250 at the White House live today only on Paramount+. [08:36] This episode is brought to you by Traeger Grills. If you enjoy food, and I mean really good food, Traeger is a game changer. This isn't just a grill. It's the ultimate way to cook outdoors, delivering unbeatable wood-fired flavor thanks to the all-natural hardwood pellets that fuel everything you grill, smoke, or bake. That's it. Just wood and fire and flavor. And what's truly wild is how easy it is. [09:06] Traeger handle the rest. Grilled steaks, smoked ribs, even baked pizza, all on one grill. If you're into fire, flavor, and doing things right, check out Traeger Grills. [09:18] This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight.

[09:29] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. [09:43] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. [10:13] to get best friends something every dog owner wants the answer to that is [10:18] is yes, obviously. So try the Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. [10:27] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. [10:35] And so when you look at a site like Machu Picchu or any of these – [10:42] ancient sites. What is the timeline that conventional archaeologists attribute [10:49] I mean, they attribute it to the Inca, which – [10:52] You know 14 [10:55] late 1400s, early 1500s, the Inca were conquered in [10:59] by the Spanish in 15...

[11:02] uh, [11:03] 1530, I think, and [11:05] So most of that megalithic architecture they attribute to the Inca. However, there's evidence that [11:11] There's a site, Jamie, if you could pull up. It's called Vinyake. This place is... [11:17] There's megalithic architecture. [11:19] with precision that goes down 50 feet under this mountain. [11:27] Check this out. [11:30] Whoa. [11:32] Thank you. [11:33] so deeply underneath. [11:35] Thank you. [11:38] this is crazy crazy [11:41] So I believe they filled in the top to, in modern times, but they- The mortar at the top. [11:47] And very soon there's going to be a guy who shows us a map. [11:53] That's incredible. Wow. [11:59] And so you see very different construction styles from the bottom to the top. [12:05] But that's how it always is, right? The most complex stuff. So that's showing that this architecture here, it goes down 50 feet. [12:16] into this mountain. [12:17] Mmm. [12:19] And what do they think this was? [12:21] So this complex is all attributed to the Wari. It's attributed to the culture that came right before the Inca, which – [12:28] Doesn't make much sense to me because what you see on the surface is [12:32] That's worry construction, which is small stones. Right. And what are they held together with? Mud mortar.

[12:41] Mud as Mortar. [12:43] And, uh... [12:44] But then, so this site has only been 4% excavated. [12:49] 4%. [12:50] It's... [12:51] underneath all of it. [12:53] is that type of architecture, which is crazy. So you have mud and mortar with very small stones, and then underneath it you have precision-cut megalithic stones. [13:05] And how big are these stones and where are they supposedly coming from? [13:09] That – so here's a funny story. So this place – [13:14] You can find it on Google Maps. They call it the El Complejo de Worry, so the Worry Complex. [13:22] But if you go back to the Spanish Chronicles, um, [13:26] Pedro Silliza de Leon, when he was in Tiwanaku, so Tiwanaku where Pumapunku is in Bolivia, when they asked the natives who built this, they said, we don't know. It was built before us. [13:36] from the people from the lake. [13:38] The same people who built vinyake. [13:40] That's what... [13:41] The natives said. [13:43] That place, Vignac, is... [13:46] 800, 1,000 kilometers from Tiwanaku. And it's the same construction. So it makes sense kind of what they're saying. The people who built Tiwanaku also built this place. [13:58] But before they knew that – [14:02] They didn't witness it. It was just there when they got there is what the locals said. Well, that's a lot of stuff, right? That's part of the weirdness. [14:09] of... [14:10] South America.

[14:12] And even Mexico, right? Yeah. That's the weirdness of the Aztec structures. I didn't know that until pretty recently that the Aztecs labeled Tenochtitlan the place where the gods were born. [14:29] I didn't know that. Yeah. I didn't know that. They don't attribute that to themselves. To themselves. They found it when they cleared the area. I mean, you think about it. [14:41] Still to this day, I was up in Lake Titicaca, and there's structures all over the place, but you're like, where were these people living? [14:48] and [14:50] Because there's no remnants of cities or towns, and the reason is because in modern times, people have recommissioned the blocks and started to use them for their farms and their homes and things like that. You have a good location, a place of reverence. You're going to build – the next culture is going to build on it, and I think that's happened a lot in a lot of places. [15:12] Well, everywhere, right? I mean, that's Lebanon, too. That's Baalbek. It seems to be the case that those immense stones where the Romans built on top of them. The Roman documentation is pretty precise. They documented everything. They never talked about these enormous thousand-ton stones that are seven meters up in the air. We're just going to put them in the base of our structure here. What? They didn't even talk about them.

[15:42] that are clearly Roman, [15:44] But the stuff underneath it just defies logic. And some of the stones that were never moved and put into place that were cut and quarried but just never moved. 1,600 tons? Yeah. [15:57] Like how and things you can't replicate nowadays. It's – That's what's crazy. Like with modern machinery, we can't do it. Yeah. [16:08] I mean, it's... [16:11] When I started this path, I was... [16:15] you know fingerprints of the gods was one of the first books i picked up as a kid my dad had it in his library and uh [16:22] And that set me off on a course and – [16:27] Thank you. [16:31] The inability to be able to – I don't know. I don't buy the mainstream. [16:39] It's – [16:40] It feels a little bit... [16:43] The, the responses that, that the mainstream kind of gives to some of this stuff. Um, [16:48] As opposed to just saying, I don't know. It's purposely ignorant. It's more than lazy. Because if it was just lazy, I mean, they've been confronted by all this other alternative archaeology evidence and all these other people that have, like, explored these things and shown. And there was always the conventional wisdom that there was no society back then that was capable of doing this. So they had to attribute it to more recent societies. Until Go Back, Leap Tat Bay. Then you're like, okay, you guys need to shut the fuck up.

[17:18] I mean, the... [17:22] There's a power in admitting like you're – if we're looking for the truth here, then it's like, OK, we got this evidence that disrupts this that we thought before. All right, just say that. Right. You know what I mean? Just say it. It's fascinating that they can't because they are like every other form of academia. They are just like – I mean you might as well be talking to a gender studies teacher. Just like they don't want to look at reality. [17:52] And they just want to push that narrative forward. And they're so mean. [17:58] I only started recently being on X within the past year, and I'm just like the cattiness of it all, man. Well, it just exposes them. It exposes their personality, and they're just not the type of people that I want to talk to about anything. Especially not – you're not the gatekeeper. If you're a 41-year-old person, you're not the gatekeeper of ancient history. You can't be. There's too much. There's too much all over the world. It doesn't make sense. None of it makes sense. [18:28] of people like Filippo Biondi and the scans underneath the pyramids. Because if he's right, and it appears he is, over 200 different independent scans. [18:39] And they all say the exact same thing. If he's right, you guys are fucked because you have to – you're going to eventually have to say we're wrong. It's – you have a moment here where you can choose which direction to go. Pretty soon that moment is going to be lost.

[18:57] But it's like this is what the evidence is presented and, like you said, verified over 200 different studies. It's like, all right, we might be wrong. Let's – Right. Meanwhile, they don't want to do that. They're still digging their heels in and they're just discrediting themselves, which is fascinating. It's really interesting. It's really interesting to watch these assholes just like flounder. Well, and it makes me think, you know, what's the reason behind it? Is it pride? Is it ego? Is it because you wrote some books? [19:27] on it that you need to keep selling? Is it because it's in textbooks that universities use? I mean, there's a lot of layers to it. It's all the above, but you can tell just by the way they communicate online, a lot of it is ego. [19:39] Yeah. Yeah. A lot of it is ego and just really bad personalities. [19:43] These people that are accustomed to never being questioned, accustomed to being in the hierarchy of academia where you have these tenured professors and then they have the people that are coming up under them and they all follow the same sort of rigid structure. And so any heterodox thinkers, anybody who comes in from outside the box, just gets shit all over. There's no open-mindedness. [20:13] There's a truck going into a tunnel and it gets stuck. [20:17] And it's backing up traffic and nobody can get through. Everybody's trying to figure out what the hell how to get this truck through. [20:23] And just, you know, some farmer walks up and he's just like...

[20:27] Take the air out the tires. [20:29] and problem solved. [20:31] And so, [20:33] The inability to let other people come in with thoughts and opinions, it just – it really – [20:39] I think it's a real detriment to the study of these things. [20:46] In my approach to some of the places I've gone, I think it is that – [20:50] Yes, we have research. Yes, there is a level of understanding at a lot of these places what happened. But it's also that... [20:58] going into it with a fresh set of eyes... [21:01] You know, sometimes I mean, I get so locked in my work. Sometimes I can't see outside of it. You know, sometimes it takes another party to come in and all of a sudden your mind is blown in a completely different direction. I don't see that level of. [21:14] openness to things on... [21:16] the side of a lot of the mainstream academia when it comes to this stuff. [21:20] Super Bowl 60 deserves a sportsbook built for the moment. DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of Super Bowl 60, puts you right in the center of the biggest game of the year. Anything can happen during the Super Bowl, and DraftKings has your back with early exit. If your player goes down in the first half, you still get paid in cash when your bet settles. No bonus bets, no waiting. While other sportsbooks don't offer injury protection, [21:50] quarter. An early exit works on live bets too. Pre-game or in-game, DraftKings has got you covered. New to DraftKings? New customers can bet just $5 to get $300 in bonus bets if your bet wins. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app now and use the code ROGAN. That's code ROGAN to turn $5 into $300 in bonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

[22:17] Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. In New York, call 877-8-HOPE-N-Y or text HOPE-N-Y-467-369. In Connecticut, call [redacted phone] or visit ccpg.org. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas, pass through if per-wager tax may apply in Illinois. 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Restrictions apply. Bet must win to receive bonus bets which expire in seven days. Minimum odds required. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co slash audio. [22:47] People have to really understand that the whole concept of mainstream academia is only a few hundred years old. And that's what's weird. It's like – so these very recent structures – [22:58] these very recent establishments, want to be the gatekeepers of information of the [23:04] a vast swath of the world. I mean, it's not possible. It's not possible that you know everything. It's not. I was thinking about that. You know, a lot. They know a lot about things they have discovered. They do. They know a lot about Mesopotamia. They know a lot about Iraq, all the amazing stuff that they find. Some stuff they very accurately dated, but it doesn't [23:30] it doesn't explain things that you can't explain. And they want to try to just fit it. Yeah. That's what's goofy. Yeah. That's, I mean, look, if the puzzle piece doesn't fit, stop trying to force it. Well, it's also, it's like, [23:43] more gigantic, spectacular pieces. And you're like, well, those aren't important. I mean, Ben Van Kirkwijk with this most recent discoveries where they're using the ground penetrating radar to find the labyrinths and this 40 meter long metallic object that's inside of an atrium.

[24:03] down there? Like, what is that thing? Yeah, I have... I hope it's something... [24:08] If they go looking, and I hope they do, and this is the other thing. It's like let's start putting money towards this like now. You know what I mean? Right. Like figure this out. Right. [24:19] I don't know why I thought this. I think it might be a meteorite if it's some sort of metallic thing. 40-meter long meteorite. I know. I know. That's a fucking civilization ender. But imagine the next civilization coming across that thing and hearing the stories. It's like, shit, let's worship this. Let's revere it somehow and put it in an atrium. It's just my thought. Exactly. Exactly. This one's 40 meters. [24:49] They all go to touch. [24:51] Which is kind of crazy, right? But completely makes sense, right? Something comes from the sky, it lands, causes chaos, and then you worship it. [25:00] I mean, that also wasn't one of like King Tut's knives was made out of a meteorite or something like that. So they were finding these things. 40 meter one is pretty big, though. I know. But also Tic Tac shaped. [25:13] That's the other thing. I'm like... [25:16] So when it comes, I'm just like, let's go. Let's go. Well, you know, that's part of the Bob Lazar lore. I remember. Bob Lazar said that when he was told that at least one of these things came from an archaeological dig. Yeah. [25:30] I'm like, what? What? What do you mean? He's like, that's what they were telling me. I don't know.

[25:36] But they told me that one of them was from an archaeological dig. So these things are really old. Dude, and his accuracy was with the element 118, 115, something like that. From 1989 when element 115 wasn't even discovered until the 2000s. I mean, that's why when he's – I forget who I was talking to outside, but we were talking about – [26:06] sites. Yeah. [26:09] Let's go find it. You know what I mean? Well, that's where it gets really weird. Where it gets really weird is these mummies. Oh, we're going to go to the mummies. What are you going to do, Jamie? Eric Burleson, a representative, talking about [26:23] how he's asked the White House to give DOD the power to let them go see this stuff, including... [26:30] A buried UFO. [26:35] that is so large it cannot be moved. [26:38] that they've built an entire building around it. And I think that [26:41] I think either Greer, [26:44] or [26:45] Another individual has actually mentioned this site, but I'm not going to mention it because it is a classified location. But there is a really apparent there's reported a really large. [26:56] Object, and that's one of the locations that I'm requesting to get to. It's going to evolve a lot to make that happen, but... [27:03] That may be the final destination. Shit like that makes me want to run for president because that's all I would care about. The economy would be in shambles. I'd be like, show me the UFOs. Do you think they'd do it? Because I've heard that like the – No, they'd kill me.

[27:17] uh... [27:18] I mean, it's on that need-to-know basis where they're keeping stuff from presidents. You know? Kennedy got too close. I don't think that's what they killed Kennedy for, but I think there's a bunch of things. But – [27:31] There's a whole lot of layers. Yeah, but the UFO people love to think that it's UFOs. That's why they killed Kennedy. But they think everything's UFOs. But it definitely seems like – [27:44] I don't know about the evidence because it's just stories, and that's the problem is that a lot of this stuff – and this is how I feel when a lot of people come on the podcast and talk to me, supposed whistleblowers. Some of them I think are legitimate, and some of them I think are disinformation specialists. I think they're designed to muddy up the water. [28:04] And this is what they're saying is designed to muddy up the water, and that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to make a lot of this stuff look silly and push certain narratives and just create confusion. And I think – [28:16] A lot of it is probably some black budget, weird stuff. [28:20] science stuff that we have. But then it begs the question, [28:25] Where'd you get that? [28:26] Is that really like the Diana Posolka work where she's talking about essentially these things are donations and that we're supposed to take these things and try to figure it out? And then you look at some of the creation of some different inventions that happened very quickly after Roswell. [28:46] Our civilization just – I mean –

[28:50] Just been on a boom ever since. Yeah, weird stuff. Yeah. Like the fiber optic stuff and transistors, just the history of the creation of the transistor and the people that were involved in it. It seems awful fucking fishy. Right. [29:06] I mean, I try to stick with what I – [29:10] evidence that I can make out tangibly, and it just gets so murky. Like you said, all of this gets so murky that I don't – [29:20] I don't know how the truth would... [29:22] even land you know well the truth would have to land if there was an overall comprehensive [29:30] effort by all of the world governments. And there would have to be some sort of unity in this and some sort of like a recognition that this is really important for the entire human population to understand our past. And if this is nonsense, let's find out that it's nonsense. And if this is real, this changes everything. Yeah. [29:52] And, [29:53] When you look at, just look at the vastness of the cosmos. It's not... [29:57] Outside of the realm of possibility that this stuff either came from somewhere else or was here because they were here. That there was an advanced civilization here. [30:08] whether it's our civilization or whatever the hell those mummies are. Because the tridactyl mummies are weird. [30:17] We can talk about that because I did a deep dive with my friend Will and there is –

[30:26] There is too much amok going on with these things for me to objectively say... [30:33] that they are what people are claiming them to be. There's just there's too much [30:38] wrong with the picture. Right. Well, first of all, a lot of them are fake. [30:43] Yeah. For sure. Oh, yeah. A lot of them people have seemingly created with a bunch of different animal bones. And human bones. And human bones. And pieced them together. But then there's the weird ones. You know, there's the weird ones that are mummified and they're in the fetal position and you see a structure that doesn't exist in the human body, but it's complete with tendons and ligaments. And some of them have eggs inside of them. Joe, I'm telling you, man, look, I want to believe that. [31:13] He thinks bullshit? [31:15] I think it is much closer to bullshit than it is all of them. [31:20] I think what we're dealing with here are. [31:23] Real human beings from the past. They are ancient that have been put together. Will from Incredible History has done some amazing work with some amazing specialists. I mean, people at the top of their field on this stuff, looking at the x-rays and the DICOM files and calling out. [31:40] um [31:42] calling out cuts, calling out incisions that were made, calling out why things don't make sense. [31:46] and [31:49] For me... [31:51] The reason I put out my last video on the Nazca mummies is because there's this whole other narrative, too, of where the money is, who's making money off of these things. And I think that – Is there money being made off those little mummies?

[32:02] please you got something? yeah [32:09] So I remember, I forget who you were talking to. It might have been... [32:12] Jesse Michaels. [32:14] But... [32:17] I remember you saying... [32:19] You know, these are one of the greatest art projects if they were fake. Right. [32:23] Well, if you just scroll to the right here, this is what the... That's the goofy one. Yeah, but that's what the walkero is selling. He sent that to me personally, the guy selling these things. These goofy ass... So this is for people... [32:35] You can't see it? There's a folder on there that has the pictures in the photos. These are the goofy ones. But what is the one that is the female that's in the – [32:47] Is that what they're calling it? Maria is one of them. I mean, so Will had on Dr. William Morrison and Dr. Proctor, Dr. Wilson. I mean, like people in the top of their – [33:00] in the top of their field analyzing these things. This one looks fake as fuck. Yeah, everybody, you can get this for $15,000. This comes directly from the Wacquero finding these things, by the way. [33:13] I did like a little undercover thing uh [33:18] trying to see what I could lure out of him. Um, [33:21] This is not particularly compelling to me. [33:25] But it's in the same class coming from the same place. Supposedly the same group of people are providing these things to the –

[33:34] Yeah, this is in the Eco Museum. This is where they're housed. What is it, Montserrat? Is that what the – Montserrat, yeah. Montserrat. [33:41] So these are – again, these are not that compelling to me. The small ones, no. The big ones – so the big ones, though, are – [33:51] Gosh, they keep coming out with new specimens. There's a new one, Antonio, who's a teenage boy, except for his feet. His feet have arthritis in them, which indicates that they put the foot bones of another specimen on this thing. [34:09] Now, what these doctors have done, look, and here's the thing. I mean, I want to be clear. I would love nothing more. [34:15] than Peru to be the hot spot of some new species. I don't think we're alone. I don't think we've identified every species. [34:24] But also, I'm not... [34:27] I'm not putting my money on these things coming out as authentic. I think they have been used with authentic bones, which is why they're getting the dates. Um, [34:36] I think that [34:37] - [34:39] Dude, I did a deep dive on this stuff. Please go. No, feel free. Tell me. Tell me what you found out. I initially wasn't going to make the video I did, but after spending – [34:49] days staying up doing this research. I just, I, I, I, I couldn't not do it. Um, [34:55] And I found like I even watched the whole Gaia series on this stuff and I found myself like getting entranced by the like maybe maybe and then right and then also watching the whole reason of putting this stuff out there is like look make your own decision.

[35:10] But don't just take in the fantasy. Take in the other possibilities too. And just have all the information before you make your decision. Well, clearly we know some of them are fake. Clearly. [35:24] Even people like me who want so desperately to believe – and it's also the corresponding artwork from the past, the three-toed, three-fingered artwork, which is weird. That is weird, and I saw some of those geoglyphs down there in the middle of nowhere, and so – [35:42] And then the whole thing with James Fox and the Brazil incident and that thing. [35:53] The three-fingered thing is a weird... [35:57] thing in history. Um... [35:59] Thank you. [36:00] With these bones... [36:04] I mean, I'm going to have to point you to some of the videos that these specialists have come out analyzing the files. Yeah. [36:11] But where the money is, is... [36:15] exactly what's happening now. It's... [36:18] Thank you. [36:20] We have this possibility. We're going to make a show about it. We're going to put out this new thing. We're going to – it goes deep, Joe. The same doctors, the same specialists that are verifying – [36:31] currently the Nazca mummies have been on the same team, [36:35] For the past 20 years, [36:37] verifying other species and specimens that they've...

[36:41] Alien hybrids and say the same people literally my whole video. I'm just like this is what he said in 20 2007 and [36:48] This is what he said about this fake thing in 2012. This is what he said about the fake thing in 2017. And I put it back to back. So it's the same. [36:57] narrative. Same people. It's the same people, the same narrative. [37:01] And so you think that the construction has just gotten more sophisticated? 100%. 100%. They learn. What is that, the major one? [37:09] Maria and Montserrat. Let's find Montserrat. [37:15] And see the Jesse Michaels stuff because he went down there and looked at them and they did scans on the bodies and – [37:22] Let's talk about Service Titan. Over 10,000 contractors already run their businesses on Service Titan. Now they're building an AI trained on real trades workflows. This isn't generic AI. This is AI built specifically for contracting work, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and more. It's booking calls, helping run your back office, and growing your revenue automatically. [37:52] AI. The trades are about to lead from the front. Service Titan, the AI for the trades. [38:03] This summer, the Cup is taking over the U.S., and only DraftKings has you covered every step of the way. Follow every group stage upset, every knockout round thriller, every stoppage time moment that flips the whole tournament. Sweat all the big matches you love in real time with a seamless experience built for the world's biggest stage. No matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in the game with one app. Yes, that means you in Ohio.

[38:33] with code rogan spend five bucks to get 200 in rewards within 21 days that's code rogan in partnership with draft kings the crown is yours gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER 21 and over ohio only eligibility restrictions apply bonus bets expire seven days after issuance for additional terms and responsible gaming resources cdkng.co slash audio limited time offer [38:57] And then I have a link to – [39:00] I think it's Dr. Morrison talking about Montserrat's feet. [39:04] the x-rays of his feet and pointing out that's on the spreadsheet. Well, let's see that. [39:11] I'd like to see that. [39:13] Do you think that these are recent creations of old bones? Is that what it is? That's what I think. Okay. And how do you think they did it? [39:21] Is there any speculation? [39:25] So there are. So here's the. [39:27] I'm a car bomb. [39:29] What's that, Jimmy? Just asked him a question. I cut him off. [39:32] How do you think they did it? How do you think they did it? [39:34] Well, I think that they... [39:37] I think they've gotten very good with... [39:39] taxidermy. [39:41] Right, because we've seen that before where you take like an owl and you attach it to an iguana. In fact, in the research I did, there was this demon fairy thing in 2017. [39:56] If you want to pull up my video. Let's start with this. Let's start with this. We'll get to the demon fairy thing soon. Talk to me. Shit is wild.

[40:05] This is from a surface scan that was available. And I went in and just kind of removed some of the fuzziness so that I could highlight the bones. [40:14] and one of the things [40:15] again that you notice is that the joints have a lot of spacing between them. [40:20] These are not joints that are in contact, so they're dislocated. [40:24] I'm not sure. [40:25] Now, the main part here, the central area where... [40:29] the cuneiforms are in the cuboid. [40:31] those articulate with five metatarsals normally. [40:34] um the way the way these are lettered a would go with the big toe and e would go with the little toe and [40:42] Again, just like in Maria, those are missing. But the joints are not lined up properly. [40:48] The shapes of the joints don't go with [40:52] the matching bone on the cuneiforms of the cuboid. That's exactly what I was seeing in CT. So none of the articulations of the metotarsal junction really made any sense, and some of the bones didn't even meet an articular surface at all. [41:10] so that jumped out to me immediately because then my first question goes to how would that even be a functional foot? So Montserrat, that's... [41:21] So that's – [41:23] Why does Montserrat have tendons? Click on that. Keep it going a little bit. Where I thought I saw the razorry section, because people were talking about [41:33] there's still being tendons and stuff intact. And I would agree that some of those metatarsals are, as Dr. Proctor pointed out, in the correct position, but then some are just missing. So if you wanted to...

[41:46] Elevate the illusion. [41:48] One of the ways you could do that would be by performing a raised resection. Essentially, that's a function-conserving surgery where if you've had damage to your metacarpals or your metatarsals, they'll remove that metacarpal or metatarsal and kind of rearrange your fingers or your toes and the remaining metacarpals to keep your limb functioning. So her feet, Montserrat's feet, were just a little bit different where I think they might have used more... [42:16] complex procedure like that versus Maria where her feet just looked more like arts and crafts to my eye. [42:24] So Maria came up – [42:28] If these things are... [42:30] are hoaxes. [42:32] There is also... [42:33] If we're just going with that angle. [42:35] There's a clear evolution. [42:38] Of the work that goes into them behind the scenes. Like that one came out after the first one. The first one got called out on a whole bunch of things. All of a sudden the next iteration doesn't have the same... [42:49] Oh, right. They're correcting. Yeah. And so – and that's actually – I forget. There was an archaeologist on X. He said that's very common in the world of fake antiquities. Like they learn. Once they get called out on something, they'll figure out how to make the pottery better or something like that. Is there a lot of money in this stuff? Yeah. I mean apparently – Where's the money coming from? How does it – [43:12] For me, it's not even in the sale. The most money coming from this is not in the sale of these things. It's in the shows.

[43:21] that come from it. [43:22] It's in the series. It's in the subscriptions. [43:25] to get to the next season where they're going to finally reveal the truth about it. There's a lot of money being made in the background. And that's part of the deep dive I went on, like following the money. So who do you think is making them? Do you have a theory? Yeah. [43:40] I believe that... [43:43] There's actually... [43:47] it was in, it was in my video and one of Will's videos. There was a grave robber, a whistleblower, a grave robber who was part of this team. And he shares how, um, [43:59] Thank you. [44:00] He was getting stuff for Mario, like the main guy. There's got to be a team of specialists working on this stuff. And, I mean, money went into making these things because money is going to come from it. [44:11] That seems like a lot of money though. [44:14] Yeah. But you would think that that would kind of fall apart. Yeah. [44:18] I would. [44:20] It is falling apart. But it is under scans. But I would say like someone would rat somebody out. [44:28] These are inscrupulous people. So that's... [44:31] Part of the reason I also decided to make this video and a lot of the pushback on this stuff is like, oh, you don't you don't trust. [44:39] you know, uh, Latin American doctors or anything. No, it's, it's, it's not that it's Latin American doctors from Peru and, and, [44:48] Journalists, they're afraid to talk about this stuff because things can get violent down there surrounding this topic.

[45:03] Thank you. [45:05] There's a – that's right at the bottom. The Eco Mafia. Yeah, there's a Mafia. The Eco Mafia. And, in fact, the guy Mario who – There you go. [45:14] Officials have warned about the existence of a mafia dedicated to the trade with links throughout Southern America and Europe and at the time is $18 million a year. [45:22] So this is all going to wealthy people in other countries that want to have these artifacts in their homes? Yeah. [45:32] Yeah. I've seen the text messages with some of the American buyers. [45:36] Really? Yeah. [45:37] So these guys are just like, come on into my den. I'll show you a mummy. What I'm talking about specifically was – [45:46] tapestries and it was actually the guy I met in [45:50] the artisanalis in Miraflores. And he showed me video. He was very open with me. He showed me videos of [45:57] Because the buyers want to see provenance. The buyers want to see them pulling – [46:01] the artifacts out of the ground. Right. So they just bury them and then they just... Well, no, I mean... [46:09] Mummy crowd funder leaves archaeologists fuming. So there's a guy in London that's selling this stuff? So Victor Wind Museum in London. [46:18] A cabinet dedicated to dead people. [46:22] And they were trying to get a mummy from Peru. [46:26] Wow. So it's – what do you think is going on with the skulls? [46:30] The elongated skulls. If you, Jamie, I have a...

[46:35] Um, [46:38] I think that... [46:40] Thank you. [46:40] That's one I found. So here's one. You found that one? Oh, yeah. That's one of three I've come across. Yeah. [46:46] Now, supposedly there's a difference in the way the skull, you know, when you're a child, what is it called? The sagittal sutures, yeah. I found some without the – every elongated skull that I've – the three I've come across all had the sagittal – all had that suture. Like a normal human does. Like a normal human. So these would be from pressing boards on the child's head when they're in development. Binding, yeah. [47:16] would you do that and [47:18] I mean, I err on the side of you don't just come up with that. You're trying to imitate something. Right. You know, and so that that's. [47:26] And then you see it in Egypt and the high road groups and stuff. So I do think, like, there is... [47:33] You know, there's... [47:35] We've labeled things other species with just a bone fragment. [47:40] You know, I'm like, there's there's [47:42] deserts of these things. And I think that if the right study went to them, you might have a separate species. [47:49] If you put the money towards studying this stuff, because it's all out there, man. Right. Like a separate branch of the human species? Possibly, yeah. Right. Which makes sense. I mean, they're finding separate branches all the time. All the time. The Denisovans. Yeah.

[48:05] You know, all these different ones that they've found within the last 20 years. Yeah. [48:09] And there could be something with a larger head, an elongated head. Yep. [48:13] And that's the – I don't know enough about osteo-whatever to go in depth about it, but it – [48:23] I mean, I think you had whole cultures just doing this or [48:27] There's too many of them for it to have just been kind of some elitist practice, I think. And a bizarre practice at that. Like why would you want to do that to your kid's head when clearly it's probably not been done to your head, at least the first people? Like what were you trying to imitate? [48:44] There... [48:46] I forget who told me this. Uh... [48:50] There is some, I think Will told me this, there's some woman who did this practice on herself, like actually trepanated her own head. [49:01] Well, we've talked about trepanation when we had that woman on to herself. Okay. Well, wait. You had her on? Yeah. Well, a woman who did – what was her name again? The psychedelic lady. She's – I believe she passed, didn't she? [49:16] Recently? [49:18] Really fascinating woman. Amanda Fielding. Amanda Fielding. She died recently, right? Yeah. Yeah. So – [49:26] But she did self-trepanation. She did self-trepanation. But that's not elongation of the skull. No, but – [49:33] If there's an idea that.

[49:36] What that trepanation might have done in the ancient days, they did it like to release the evil spirits if somebody was afflicted with some sort of psychosis or something like that. [49:47] But – [49:48] And I forget if it was Amanda. [49:53] Something happens with your brain waves when, like, the brain is exposed or something like that. There's some sort of – I don't know. The fuck do you find that out without doing it? [50:03] But if the skull is elongated, I don't know if it gives extra space to – [50:09] Amen. [50:11] I forget who told me this. It changes the chemical structure of the brain that like – kind of like a DMT experience. You're open to more things. Uh-huh. [50:23] And so an idea is that if you elongated it and had that extra – [50:29] in the skull for the brain to have more... [50:32] oxygen I guess maybe it [50:35] affects your brain chemistry. I don't know. Just pure speculation. Period. But one of the things about some of these skulls they found is that the volume is larger than a human brain. That's true. [50:47] So how would you do that just by stretching it out with boards? I mean, it would seem like you have the same volume, you're just changing the shape of it, right? [50:55] Yeah, but there are some, like you said, that have more volume, that would appear to have more volume. And have there been no studies on these weird ones, the ones that don't have those sagittal lines that correspond with human veins? Because some of them don't, right? Fringe studies. That's the problem. That is the problem. What are we looking at? Are we looking at an animal head that they've kind of like shoved onto like human features and glued things together? Oh, with the mummies? I mean, some of these skulls.

[51:25] like the one you just saw, I mean, they're there. [51:29] They're just out in the desert. I don't know why funding hasn't been – And you found them just sitting there. Yeah. And you just leave them there? Yeah. Yeah. I put a pin on – I mean eventually one day I would like to – [51:42] Thank you. [51:43] I don't know, form some sort of relationship with the ministry of culture. Because the thing is, nobody's going out there. And I specifically... [51:49] I specifically went to places this last expedition that I went the first year. [51:54] Just to see what happened a year later. And those places were looted even more. The things I had found and come across and documented like an elongated skull wasn't there anymore. So these things are being taken and sold. Yeah. [52:07] Makes you wonder how much of it was there in the past. Yeah. [52:12] I mean... [52:13] I don't like that. Eight kilometers of looting. [52:16] It was... [52:17] all bones and textile and... [52:21] pottery and I mean just eight full kilometers and like so it's an eight kilometer graveyard yeah [52:28] Damn. [52:30] When I'm looking up trepanation, this elongated skull is coming up. Apparently this one is in Oklahoma, a museum of some kind. That's the one that looks like it's had surgery on it. There's some sort of a metal implant. It's come up in that context. This one's coming up too, but what they're saying is that the metal implant is used in... [52:50] after trepanation has been done to sort of patch the bone. Sometimes that has been documented as happening. What kind of metal are they using on your fucking head? Well, that's the weird thing, too, because that metal has come up in the skull...

[53:03] scans on like Montserrat. I don't know which one in particular had it but they're saying it's got like metal that wasn't available. [53:09] you know. What's that one on the lower left-hand corner? That one looks crazy. Oh, that's the Chungo School. What's that? Okay, so that one looks different. That's in the Chungo School. Yeah, that's... It says it's in Paracas. Click on that. [53:20] It's very close to where I found the one I showed you from my footage. Okay, that skull looks nuts. So that doesn't look like a human skull at all. [53:28] That one is... Look at the lines on that one. That's fucking crazy. [53:36] That doesn't seem like it has any of the normal lines that a human skull has. [53:41] The museum, unfortunately, is closed now, so you can't go see it. I tried to. Well, where is it? It was in Perron. The Ministry of Culture shut down that museum. Oh. [53:52] Oh, the collection often accepts... [53:55] exceptionally elongated skulls found in Paracas, particularly around the village of Changos near Pisco, [54:04] Dating to around 700 BCE to 200 CE, his skulls exhibit severe artificial cranial deformation, practice used by elite Parakas culture members to signify status. [54:18] Huh. [54:20] That is the one we just saw in that museum is the largest one. [54:24] But it's weirdly large. Can you find some more images of that one? I was trying to find some other stuff that's... [54:29] not three years old. [54:31] or older [54:31] That's okay. We'll just see the images of it. It might be hard for that one since the museum closed. Right, but there's images. Yeah. Yeah.

[54:39] So, [54:40] That looks like it's a lot more volume than a human head. The one on the far left, just the one, yeah, either one, the one below it. Like that, just the image alone of that. [54:50] How do you get a normal human head? [54:53] to be that large. [54:55] Without some sort of – It looks like you stuffed a balloon into someone's eyeball and kept pumping it up while they're a baby. Like what the hell is that? [55:05] That's so much bigger than a normal human skull. [55:08] And then you think if it, you know, with the skull binding practice, I mean, is there going to be some form of mental illness? [55:16] Thank you. [55:17] difficulties with that human being now, if it's a human being. Or expanded capacity. Or expanded, yeah. So the cranial capacity is 25% more than a normal skull. It weighs 50% or 60% more than a normal skull. Also, the eye sockets are larger, and the jaw is larger and more compact than [55:41] God, that looks like a different kind of human. [55:44] So there's there are and when you go to these museums, there's all sorts of there's [55:49] What's that one up there? The one to the right of your cursor? What the fuck is that? Is that real? [55:54] That's why I didn't want to go here and bring up a bunch of fake shit, too. That's why I was trying to... Is that fake? I haven't seen that one before. I don't... It taking me to Facebook is already a big red flag. Yeah. I know. Facebook is a hub of fake shit. Oh, man.

[56:10] It's the same picture. So a lot of them are probably AI generated. But that one that's 25% larger than a normal human skull. [56:20] And larger eyes. The eye sockets are fucking huge. [56:23] That's also weird. [56:25] It's just like that's the problem with all this looting that's been going on for so many years. It's like there might have been some evidence of a different kind of human. [56:37] that lived... [56:38] With these people. And I mean, imagine if we find out that that different kind of human was what populated that area. And they were the people that built Sacsayhuaman. [56:55] But you find them up in the Cuzco region, too. [57:00] There's... [57:01] There's a video I have... [57:04] I think... [57:05] I think it's Chisniri, C-H-I-S-I-N. Can I ask you, what is the conventional explanation for the larger capacity of the skull and then the larger eyeballs? Yeah. [57:19] The eye sockets. [57:20] I don't know that there is a... [57:22] conventional explanation other than... It seems like you would have to explain that. Like, if that's not something different than homo sapien human being like you or me... [57:32] What is that? [57:33] That seems... [57:35] That's a different thing, right? You would think. Right. Like if you look at a Neanderthal skull – mine's pretty close to one. But if you look at a Neanderthal skull and a normal human skull –

[57:46] You can clearly see the Denisovans. You clearly see the difference. Homo julians. You see the difference. [57:51] That's different, man. It's different. And some of this... [57:55] Some of the stuff in their jaws and with the set of teeth, there's differences. I mean, I haven't done a deep dive into it. [58:02] Personally, but there are a multitude of differences that have been highlighted. And for people that are skeptical, one thing you have to recognize is that it's really hard to make a fossil. [58:14] Fossils, I mean, most things that die... [58:19] and have died forever do not become fossils. They get consumed by the earth like a normal thing would. [58:26] You know, that's why you don't find... [58:29] Yeah, yeah. And I mean, if you're talking about going back 10,000 years, that's why you're not you're not seeing much evidence of stuff. I mean, it's been so long. These these things are preserved because they're between. [58:43] At most... [58:45] typically at most 2,000-ish years in that region old. [58:50] They're preserved so well because of the climate there, which is – I mean when you're going in these barrels, you still see the hair of people. It hasn't disintegrated. It's there. God, it's so creepy. Dude, I have some creepy photos for you, man. [59:03] I don't know. You might want to put a disclaimer out before showing something. No, show them. People know on this show. You don't need a disclaimer. Here's a quick question. I found a video of a guy with an elongated skull. He's talking about these and showing it.

[59:16] size of reference to his hand. [59:18] Does the skull seem small? It does. Unless he's got some giant-ass basketball pair. That's kind of the size of the one I showed you earlier. It was smaller than you would think. [59:28] But a lot of the people there back then were very small, right? They didn't have access to a lot of protein. Like I went to Chichen Itza and – [59:38] One of the weirder things is how small the people are there, how small the Mayan people. I'm short already, and I was a giant compared to these people. It was really weird. It's typically the same – [59:50] This episode is brought to you by Armra. Every week there's some new wellness hack that people swear by and after a while you start thinking, [59:58] Why do we think we can just outsmart our bodies? [1:00:01] That's why Armra colostrum caught my attention. It's something the body already recognizes and has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff, immunity, metabolism, etc. I first noticed it working around training, especially workout recovery. Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this. If you want to try, Armra is offering my listeners 30% off plus two free gifts. Go to armra.com slash Rogan. [1:00:31] the Spanish game. [1:00:33] Hmm. [1:00:34] And then the interbreeding. And then interbreeding, yeah. Yeah. But if you go, Jamie, if you just open up the... [1:00:41] Photos remains folder. This is [1:00:44] This is the stuff you see. I mean, there's still skin on some of these things.

[1:00:51] Whoa, that's creepy. Yeah, man. And how old is that hand? [1:00:58] Probably, I mean, at this burial site, based on the artifacts I was seeing, it's Paracas or Nazca. Go back one, Jamie, please. Yeah, yeah. [1:01:06] Look at the cloth next to it too. [1:01:09] So what is that piece of cloth, you think? [1:01:12] Ah, it's like it's braided at the bottom. And then I didn't see a hole in the middle, so I don't think it was. And it's too fancy for a sling, I think. [1:01:21] So I'm not 100% sure. [1:01:23] Unless it's a fancy sling. It could be, yeah. Fancy bows and arrows, fancy guns. True, true. [1:01:29] Look at the hand, man. That's so great. But so – and what you see to the right of it is like what kind of looks like burlap is – I mean that's what the mummies were wrapped in. They were stuffed with cotton or put in the fetal position, wrapped with textile, then cotton, then more textile and ropes, and that's some of the – [1:01:49] cotton and wrapping that [1:01:50] The grave robbers had torn apart trying to find gold and jewels and things like that. [1:01:55] Yeah. And what's unfortunate is some of the most beautiful pottery there, too. It's just... [1:02:01] completely destroyed. [1:02:02] Wow. Whoa. [1:02:05] Look at all those bones. This is – you found this? Yeah. [1:02:10] God, that's got to be creepy just seeing all those dead people's bones and rope. It affects you, man. It definitely does. And what's the time period of this? This is...

[1:02:25] 2,000 years? [1:02:29] That picture actually isn't from NASCA. That was another... [1:02:34] I have a video of this to show you. [1:02:36] This place. There's just so much weirdness about Peru. Just the NASCA lines alone. Like, what were they doing? Why were you making artwork you can only see from the sky? That's crazy. That's crazy. [1:02:50] Oh, look at the hair. That's nuts. [1:02:55] Oh! [1:02:57] Normal-sized skull, though. Actually, that one, I don't have the pictures in that folder, but I measured it. It's incredibly bulbous. It's much more bulbous than a normal skull. So you're just getting a side view of it? Yeah, and I put the tape measurer there next to it, and... [1:03:14] Oof. [1:03:15] That's crazy. You see the skin. [1:03:20] The skin and the hair on the skull. Oh, God. That's creepy. [1:03:26] That's why, yeah. I mean, that... [1:03:30] You know, I thought that I had gotten – this is another thing that's been set up. [1:03:36] And you think the grave robbers do this? [1:03:39] You know, there were some places where I found things set up like this with little candy, little modern candies. And what that is, is it's a tradition called Pago La Tierra, paying the land. And so... [1:03:54] Whoever left the candy I don't think was a grave robber. It was probably – it's a way of giving back to the land, giving back to the ancestors. I started doing that with – if I had a soda bottle or something, you pour out some Coca-Cola, pay the land for walking to it and documenting the stuff.

[1:04:14] It was a nice little practice, but... [1:04:19] So the... [1:04:21] I would say that like 2000-ish – [1:04:24] years old, just to circle back. So some of these things... [1:04:29] This is all on the surface. I don't go digging. That's not on me. But... [1:04:35] The Wakeros do. [1:04:37] And that's where they're finding these things intact. [1:04:40] They're finding these things intact where you can put them into a CT scanner and it's going to show. [1:04:45] the [1:04:46] Thank you. [1:04:48] The whole insides. Has any... Have any... [1:04:52] paleontologists done or archaeologists [1:04:55] They brought these skulls and brought them for examination to try to find out if there's intact DNA that can be studied. They're supposed to be doing DNA tests on six of the specimens. But if you watch my video, you'll see each time they've done DNA tests on all the hoaxes that they've been a part of before. I imagine the results are going to be the same. Yeah, but I don't mean the hoaxes. I mean the elongated skulls with large eye sockets, things along those lines. Yeah. [1:05:23] You know, there is a lot of... [1:05:26] the bureaucracy of [1:05:29] How to go about doing anything with the Ministry of Culture in Peru is – [1:05:34] it's so disjointed you can't get things done you just can't get i know i know i [1:05:41] Brian Forster for decades was trying to get some sort of official path to do DNA studies on these things and...

[1:05:50] Thank you. [1:05:51] So, I mean, I'm hoping with the work that I'm doing with Pillars of the Past that some of those boundaries can be broken where we can actually get permission to study these things because – [1:06:00] It's Peru's patrimony. You can't just go in there and – Right. That makes sense. And so – and it costs money to do those things too. And you have to do it in the above board way. And so it's kind of waiting for the okay from them. Well, it seems like at the very least the most bizarre elongated skulls should be studied more closely. It shouldn't just be like, oh, it's in a museum. Look at the head. Right. [1:06:26] Big, huh? [1:06:27] Weird eyes. Let's move on. Look at this bowl. It's broken, but, you know, pretty interesting. Let's move on. Like, no, what the fuck is going on with that? Let's put some money, figure it out. [1:06:37] Because if it turns out that there was a totally different branch of the human species. It's huge. It's huge. [1:06:43] It's huge. [1:06:46] What's up? I don't know the accuracy of this. That's why I'm hesitant to even bring it up. But as you're asking about that. [1:06:51] That video I pulled up is this guy said that they tested 12 or 18 skulls. That's Forster. [1:06:59] Some of them came back as Native American. I'm reading the closed captioning, but some of them did not. [1:07:05] Some of them came back from the Black Sea area. Yeah, the Caspian Sea-Black Sea area from 2,000 to 3,000 years ago. Which there have been skulls found. [1:07:13] out in those areas too. [1:07:15] Wow. [1:07:17] I don't know. Black and Caspian Seas, as in the Caucasus Mountains. Whoa. So that's very intriguing. Whoa.

[1:07:26] Um... [1:07:27] What I can also share with you is what I believe was the migrational pattern, because these people, like some indigenous people of the Caspian area and Black Sea area, [1:07:39] Thank you. [1:07:40] were and are dark red-haired and also very light skin and green eyes. And this seems to correspond as well with the elongated skulls. [1:07:49] They do have red hair, a lot of them. [1:07:52] The [1:07:54] of the Paracas decided to leave the area because they were being invaded by someone. And so they traveled south. [1:08:02] through Iraq and Iran to the Persian Gulf, and there they wound up [1:08:06] sailing [1:08:07] Thank you. [1:08:08] eastwards. [1:08:10] and eventually found their way to the coast of Peru. [1:08:14] that's speculation yeah so that's the thing with with theories like this i'm like let's put some effort to peer review this stuff you know like let's let's do the studies that are needed uh [1:08:27] have multiple universities test these things, come up with a standard set of results, and then... [1:08:34] So what is missing? Funding? Interest? It seems like this is – in terms of like – [1:08:42] really doing a comprehensive study of archaeological sites. Peru seems like the least studied. Is that accurate? [1:08:51] Thank you. [1:08:52] Half halfway, I would say, only because... [1:08:55] Look, there's a part of me that also feels for the Ministry of Culture in a way where

[1:09:02] There's so many sites in Peru that to have eyes everywhere, to protect it, to have teams excavating things. I mean, isn't that alone kind of crazy how many sites there are in Peru? And the fact that also you have Sacsayhuaman, you have the Nazca Lines, you have all this weirdness in this one part of the world. Like, why? You have the oldest stone pyramids and the Americas pyramids that – [1:09:32] predate the pyramids of Giza by a thousand years. What do they look like? If you look up Corral... [1:09:39] They are – dude, I've done a whole thesis on this. I plan to write a – I don't think I'll ever get it peer-reviewed, but I plan to write a paper about my theories on some of the stuff I found. So Corral was – [1:09:52] This area on the coast, it's C-A-R-A-L and... [1:09:58] these pyramids had Graham Hancock's been looking into this stuff too. Um, [1:10:03] this sunken circular plaza. So they're just, this is a [1:10:07] Whoa. This predates Giza. [1:10:11] Well, what we think is the day of Giza. The great convention. The conventional dating. Right. [1:10:18] All right, let's see if I can condense this. Okay. [1:10:21] This site has, I don't know, eight of these pyramids. They're actually all throughout the valley and four valleys around it. [1:10:29] The earliest one is [1:10:31] in a separate valley close to this dates back to 4000 BCE. It has the remnants of a sunken circular. The main thing to keep note of is that sunken circular plaza because it's a feature that...

[1:10:43] you not only see there and those four valleys... [1:10:46] But you also see it 200 kilometers north of Peru. And what's the conventional explanation for these sunken circular plazas? Ritual spaces. Some people say collecting water. Some people say the acoustics are different. Here's the interesting thing about it. This site was discovered in... [1:11:05] The 1940s. And nobody did anything about it. The archaeology. This is what this is what happens in Peru in the from the 1900s, early 1900s to 1940s. [1:11:21] archaeologists and historians were going up and down the coast finding stuff. I mean, just finding stuff. And they would write it down. They'd put it on the map. That's why the Ministry of Culture has it on their archaeological database. [1:11:33] They... [1:11:34] pick through it what they could, put stuff in museums, and just move on. [1:11:37] That site, Kural, is a good thing. [1:11:39] predated any ceramics. I mean, this was a pre-ceramic culture, so there were no artifacts to find. So they just... [1:11:48] moved on. It wasn't until... [1:11:50] Dr. Ruth Shady in, like... [1:11:53] The 80s and 90s. [1:11:56] actually put research in and figured out, hey, this is older than everything else we found because they just overlooked it. There were no artifacts. They were just like, we're going to move on. When you say no artifacts, like that seems weird to me because like why would you make these immense structures and not have a bowl to put rice in?

[1:12:13] A lot of animal skins and the weaving. They're... [1:12:19] Thank you. [1:12:20] So, uh... [1:12:22] These cultures, what they found is – so that's a little further inland – [1:12:26] They had a sister site on the coast. And so what they would do, the only agriculture they would grow was cotton. [1:12:33] that cotton [1:12:34] They would trade with the people on the coast. [1:12:36] so they could make nets and fish with it. [1:12:39] The fish they would bring back, they would give back to those people who made the cotton for them. So it was this weird interplay and – [1:12:48] The other unique thing about this time period is there was no evidence of warfare for a thousand years. [1:12:54] Nobody was fighting each other. It was very just everybody. No weapons, no anything. No weapons, no weapons. [1:13:01] for a thousand years. That seems insane. Is that just no evidence of weapons? It's currently no evidence of weapons. Right, but [1:13:09] Maybe someone stole the weapons. That's possible. Because, I mean, you're talking about a place that's been looted ad nauseum, right? [1:13:16] This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctors' offices, online retailers, insurance companies, the list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone could do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances, and more.

[1:13:46] like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they'll alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a LifeLock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit LifeLock.com slash J-R-E and save up to 30% your first year. [1:14:16] slash J-R-E for 30% off. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Manscaped. Wondering what to get your dad on Father's Day? [1:14:28] The Beard and Dome Bundle from Manscaped is a really solid option. I've been using their Dome Shaver for a while now, and the thing I like about it is how easy it makes everything. You don't have to think about it. It just glides over your head, gets everything clean, no weird patches, no going over the same spot ten times. Honestly, it's so much better than anything. [1:14:48] any of the other brands I've tried. And then there's the Beard Hedger. It's got this zoom wheel with 20 different length settings that's built right in. So if you want to get your dad something he'll actually use, the Beard and Dome bundle for Manscaped is an easy pick. Get 15% off plus free shipping with the code ROGAN15 at manscaped.com. That's 15% off plus free shipping with code ROGAN15 at manscaped.com. [1:15:16] That's true. I mean, they put in a lot of work, though, excavating it, especially that site Corral. So you feel like somewhere they would find some sort of an axe head?

[1:15:28] Major note are some of those carvings that we saw and then bone flutes with carvings on them and... [1:15:38] The nets, the fishing nets. Hmm. [1:15:40] And my whole... [1:15:44] So my whole theory is this was a pocket. It's called the Norte Chico culture. [1:15:49] It's a little pocket of these four valleys. And I went all over them documenting these pyramids. They don't look like pyramids anymore. They look like mounds. They're so old. [1:16:01] But there's another place 200 kilometers north in the Chasma Valley. [1:16:05] And what they have found is underneath the structures that are currently exposed, [1:16:09] They found deeper layers, [1:16:12] of temples with that sunken plaza. [1:16:14] In this whole other location. [1:16:16] And those are dating to the same time. So [1:16:20] I firmly believe that what we... [1:16:22] what archaeologists currently say is the oldest culture is, [1:16:26] I believe it went the whole coast of Peru. [1:16:29] Wow. I mean, like, this was a cradle of civilization. Wow. [1:16:34] I mean hands down. Cradle of civilization 6,000 years ago. 6,000 years ago. So which is right around the time we think the cradle of civilization happened in Sumer. [1:16:44] Yeah. [1:16:45] Wow. And so the hard thing about it is like you'll have car – [1:16:51] You have some carvings in adobe that's been preserved in some of these places. So there's some sort of iconography.

[1:16:58] there's no writing like the Sumerian. The whole thing about Peru is like, [1:17:02] there was no... [1:17:05] no writing system that we know of. There is a theory, and I believe this, I believe the kippus, the... [1:17:11] rope strings with knots. Yeah, I believe that was a language. But the Spanish burnt as soon as soon as the Spanish came over, they burned as many of those things that as they could find in they killed the people who could read them. So we don't we won't ever know. Oh, God, Spaniards. How dare you? But there's like there's evidence that they would [1:17:31] They took some of the Incas to the Spanish court. [1:17:34] And so there's... [1:17:36] Inca in the Spanish court in front of the [1:17:38] Queen or king. [1:17:39] reading off of these kippus. [1:17:41] reading stories, telling the core. From knots on strings. From knots on strings. [1:17:47] Yeah. And that understanding of that stuff is lost there. It's lost. Currently, I think for the last few years, there's been some studies being done in Harvard trying to use AI to figure out what these mean. I mean, and these are left over. [1:18:02] Ah... [1:18:04] Can we see some images of them? I think 500 to 1,000. I mean, that's it. I mean, the Spanish went on a mission to burn all these things. Because they were trying to convert them to... [1:18:15] Spanish and... [1:18:17] Get them to speak the language and become Catholic. Yeah. [1:18:20] Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. And so much history is lost because of it. [1:18:25] Yeah, so it's...

[1:18:29] But what's interesting is at that oldest place, at Coral, they found a kipu. [1:18:34] they found one of these knotted strings. [1:18:36] And it wasn't a fishing net. It was what looked to be a kibu. So if you have that tradition going back 6,000 years, I mean, that's – [1:18:48] There's a lot of pictures from 1994. This is what it looked like then. It doesn't look like anything. [1:18:54] See you see that on the right? [1:18:56] Those pits? Yeah. That's looting pits. And now, wow. That's what it looks like from above here. [1:19:03] I was looking at a map. Oh, so they've got to dig it up. [1:19:06] This is the map from above. [1:19:12] It's a pretty big area. [1:19:14] Why is ancient history so damn fascinating? If you go on my spreadsheet, there's a place called – [1:19:20] Era de... what is it? I'm looking at my notes here. [1:19:24] MR. [1:19:25] Sunken Plaza Era de Pando. [1:19:27] It's a link to my YouTube channel. [1:19:29] So this, what we're about to see is... [1:19:32] right across the valley from Koral. [1:19:34] So all throughout that valley are these sites from that Norte Chico culture. And I'm like right there on top of this pyramid and just the drone footage is epic, man. Wow. So I went on a mission looking for these places. Yeah. [1:19:51] That's it. The thing about this that is so compelling but also so unsatisfying is that [1:19:59] A lot of these stories, you're never going to get the full answer. Yeah.

[1:20:04] No, you're never going to get the full history. It's just the mystery will never be satisfied. [1:20:10] You're always going to be hungry. [1:20:12] You know, which is... Is that... [1:20:14] For a person like yourself that studies these places and has dedicated so much time to it, is that in any way frustrating or does it add to the appeal of it? [1:20:23] Both. Um... [1:20:27] Well, I got a 6,000-year-old site. That's a quick question. There's no one there with you at all, it looks like? No. So no one can stop you from – [1:20:35] No, I, uh, look at that. No, I mean, if you get, if you got caught, yeah, this is just me. Uh, I, I actually spoke to, um, there was an archeo, an archeologist who told me to go to that place. And so I went and I just, I was the only one there. [1:20:55] Wow. [1:20:56] So this is my whole thing was I identified most of these places through Google Earth first. Like they're not labeled. These places aren't labeled. [1:21:06] At all. That's crazy. [1:21:08] So these aren't documented places? No, this is. This one place right here is? It's not on Google Earth, though. It's not on Google Maps. You won't see any marker of it. [1:21:17] But... [1:21:18] I was able to do some digging because of the guy who took me through the site. I meet this random guy, Luis. Luis is amazing. He's a farmer right here. I freaked him out. He thought I was coming to rob him because he gets robbed often, apparently. [1:21:34] Oh, boy. But he walked me through the site, and he...

[1:21:38] This one says, [1:21:39] Okay, if you pause it. [1:21:41] That right there on the bottom right is another one of those temples with the sunken plaza, except that one has monoliths. [1:21:48] Oh, looks like Stonehenge. Exactly. And nobody's done a study on astro... I don't know that stuff. [1:21:57] I can almost guarantee that there is some sort of astronomical alignment. So what happened was archaeologists did come back, did come here in the 90s, I think. [1:22:08] And... [1:22:10] It didn't look like Corral. They weren't going to be able to restore it, so they just kept it as a... [1:22:15] to find dating on these things. And it's from the same culture. It's just a couple of values over. [1:22:23] Hmm. [1:22:24] Do you have any footage of the monoliths? [1:22:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [1:22:28] It'll come up if you fast forward through it. [1:22:32] It's going to be back closer to where – yeah. [1:22:36] elephants. [1:22:39] We walk up to it. [1:22:41] There you go. [1:22:45] Interesting. So some sort of a stone circle of modelists. I put it through AI. They're fairly small modelists, though, right? I mean, some of them have been buried and removed. [1:22:56] Oh. [1:22:59] So someone's got them in their fucking house somewhere. [1:23:01] Some of them, yeah. [1:23:02] Ugh. [1:23:04] How much of that is a problem with archaeology? I know that that was a giant issue with Egyptian artifacts. A lot of wealthy people in other countries would just get it imported to their den and have a big fancy party. It still happens. I will have to say that...

[1:23:23] the [1:23:24] And I mean I've seen it with my own eyes looting. I've never come across like somebody in the field doing that though. That would be fucking terrifying, right? It would be freaky. Because they'll kill you. Dude, you're out in the middle of nowhere. And if they get caught, they're in deep shit so they would want to get rid of you. [1:23:39] and [1:23:41] I mean, would I... [1:23:44] I know for a fact the way some of these get out of the country is some of these huaqueros have people on the inside who write them certificates and things like that that say it's an authentic piece that has been owned by the family for this long so they can get it out of the country to whoever they're selling it to. That's how it works. Yeah. [1:24:04] What's a bigger problem, though, recently, after talking to several archaeologists and witnessing it myself, is... [1:24:10] agriculture. [1:24:12] Agriculture. They actually went to [1:24:16] I went to a couple sites that [1:24:18] I found this by mistake looking on Google Earth. [1:24:21] So I would find a site and I would like roll the satellite date back because sometimes different seasons give you better imagery. I'm like, holy hell – [1:24:30] what exists now is a quarter of what existed 10 years ago. [1:24:35] And now all you see is like plantations planted. I mean, they have literally [1:24:41] paved over the archaeological site to plan. Dude, and that is... It's become one of the bigger missions of the channel and eventuality because... [1:24:52] Dude, you don't know. This site could have aligned with that site, could have aligned with you. You have no idea. And there's no documentation of it.

[1:24:58] There's no documentation because nobody's going out there. These places are far away. But here's another peculiar thing. This last expedition, so I found one of these sites and... [1:25:09] And I'm on camera and I'm ready to go in like. [1:25:13] Guns a blazing like how dare you do this? How dare you erase this? And I get there and... [1:25:19] I mean it's crumbled stones, crumbled walls. [1:25:22] And it's just this woman. [1:25:23] On her farm. And so I start talking to her. [1:25:27] This wasn't corporate. [1:25:29] This woman has, in fact, did, in fact, write to the Ministry of Culture to say, hey, I'm expanding my farm. [1:25:36] They didn't get back to her, so she did it. She paved over her... [1:25:43] created plots on half the archaeological site. [1:25:47] So it becomes a... [1:25:50] Thank you. [1:25:51] Thank you. [1:25:52] I don't know what the right solution is because I feel for this woman. She's actually – she's not – this isn't corporate. She's just surviving. She's just surviving. The corporate stuff like pisses me off and I'll go hard on them and I do in some of my videos. Yeah. [1:26:06] But she and she tried to do the right thing. [1:26:08] By reaching out to the ministry of culture. But what's she supposed to do? Wait 10 years to get a response? Right. You know? And so... [1:26:16] Um, [1:26:17] And then I don't know how you empower these people. [1:26:20] Because from where I sit is at least if you could document it, [1:26:23] then you'd have a record of it. [1:26:25] You know, that's that's what I'm trying to do when I go out there, create the 3D models and put it put.

[1:26:30] pins on a map or something like that. You know, so... [1:26:33] So it's a tricky situation to try to figure out. [1:26:37] What's the most compelling site in Peru for you? [1:26:40] . [1:26:41] I wanted to show you this. If you look in my video footage, Purulen pyramids, P-U-R-U-L-E-N. [1:26:50] This site, I think it is much more deserving of future study. It's a site that has 16 platform pyramids. [1:27:00] Wow. And what does this site date to? [1:27:05] So when I do this, half my role here is like I'll go out and find these places and then [1:27:12] On the back end, when I make these videos, I go hard on the research. Like, I spend too much. Sorry, which video was that? [1:27:19] Pyramids Purulin. [1:27:21] Oh, I got it. [1:27:24] That's just so you can have a sense of scale. [1:27:28] Thank God for drones, huh? 100%. [1:27:33] Okay. So... [1:27:35] That's a platform. [1:27:39] So that is the remains. [1:27:41] That's – so right back – if you look back on the horizon, that's the coast. So this is right on the ocean, which means – [1:27:49] This has been inundated for millennia by tsunamis and... [1:27:55] It looks like it. It really does, right? It looks like it's completely washed over. Look at how the sand is formed. I kept that in there. That's the wind. The wind is so – I messed up my first drone flying it here.

[1:28:09] Um... [1:28:10] But check this out. I keep this in so you can just... [1:28:13] There's another one. [1:28:14] Wow. [1:28:17] It gets better, man. [1:28:18] That seems like a riverbed. [1:28:20] It completely seems like water is washed right over this whole area. [1:28:26] Sorry. [1:28:27] I bet if you look at it from far above, it's even more evident, right? There it was. Yeah. [1:28:32] Look at that. [1:28:33] So [1:28:34] Wow. And they're all the same. They all have the same shape. Wow. [1:28:42] And what's the conventional explanation for this place? There was one study done on this, and it was a brief survey in 1970. [1:28:50] And this guy. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. However, the archaeologists who did that survey, there's another one there. [1:28:58] Um, [1:28:59] The archaeologist who did this survey has been quoted in the past 30 years saying he always wanted to come back here and do more research. [1:29:05] He just never did. It's not an easy place to get to. Um, [1:29:10] But... [1:29:11] What they dated it at is even in that report, that 1970s survey, [1:29:17] He's saying 1800 BCE, but likely, oh, look at that. [1:29:22] Wow. [1:29:26] Wow. Here's something unique. If you pause it real quick. [1:29:31] All right. So I looked on Google Earth, and those – [1:29:34] Toward the top center, you see those two block-looking things? All right. So I thought they were megalithic. They're not all of these. All of these pyramids?

[1:29:44] are carved out of the bedrock. Wow. Are carved out of the bedrock. And the only place that there were looting pits... [1:29:52] are behind those two stones at the top. [1:29:55] In that little alcove of the mountains, that was the only place. So I went there and there's bones there. So that's where people were buried. And I'm like, why are they burying people here? And I stand right in the middle and it's facing me. [1:30:08] 89 degree, almost perfect [1:30:10] East-West. [1:30:11] that little gap. So like that, that's where they were burying in their elite people. So where the sun would rise in the summer solstice. Yeah. [1:30:20] Wow. Now, how old is this site supposed to be? So they said in that report, he says 1800. They found one piece of pottery that's documented. They found one. And so this is from the 1970s study. Yeah. Um. [1:30:34] And [1:30:35] So they're saying 1800 BCE. [1:30:39] That's right around when pottery started. [1:30:41] And... [1:30:43] But in that report, he says it's likely older as well. He thinks it's older. It needs more study. [1:30:48] That was it. That was the only thing that was put out there. [1:30:51] I mean, this is 16 pyramids here. And if you look in my drone footage, you'll see it looks like there's another thing here, another thing there. So it's in the neighborhood of 4,000 years old, but possibly older. [1:31:04] Correct. And I think it is... [1:31:07] would stake everything on it being found to be much older. [1:31:11] Pre-ceramic, pre-pottery. The pre-ceramic thing is nuts, right? So, like, here's the thing.

[1:31:18] What are they using for utensils? What are they using for plates? Like, what are they using to put their food on? And then if it is pre-ceramic... [1:31:27] What kind of tools do they have? And how are they carving? How are they building these pyramids? This out of the bedrock. I mean, imagine the amount of effort it would take for a human being banging a rock against another rock. [1:31:41] To try to do that and then to make it flat? Are these things level? Have they – I mean this is the only modern – most of my footage is the only modern media. [1:31:54] What? In existence of some of these sites. That's crazy. It's just you? Of that site? Imagine if you didn't exist. What? [1:32:01] Imagine if you weren't exposed to that as a 10-year-old. [1:32:05] Yeah, I mean... [1:32:08] This is just going to sit there for another thousand years where somebody else figures it out? [1:32:13] Or it gets paved over. God. [1:32:16] That's why I'm doing it, man. God, it's so weird. But how weird is that? [1:32:21] How weird is it? It's just you. Raul, what kind of weight on your shoulders is there that this one... [1:32:29] fascinating site you're the only guy that's got video of this modern video that's crazy [1:32:36] Yeah. [1:32:38] Thanks for having me on. You're getting kind of choked up about it. Yeah, man. I mean, it's... [1:32:46] It's a lot of work, you know, and it's just it's something in me that I've.

[1:32:52] Well, it's obviously very compelling to everyone that really pays attention to it. Is this the – That's when you look on the satellite. Oh. And again, this is the thing. This is not like they put some rocks in place. They carved these things out of the bedrock and they're fucking huge. [1:33:12] That's what's so crazy about it. [1:33:14] I just, I had to, I mean, getting there was like, what are we looking at, man? [1:33:20] Like, that's the thing. Like, what are we looking at? And why in Peru? And what happened to this area where they had so much, so much sophisticated, complex construction that was absolutely abandoned and there's almost nothing left? [1:33:38] So they over the course of history, what they've found is that. [1:33:44] Especially because people like to build on the coast and there's just up and down the coast of Peru. There's so much. Sure. [1:33:50] But then made... [1:33:52] a major massive El Nino would happen. And that just floods everything. And so people are like, well, we got to, we got to go up into the mountains. So they start going further into the valleys. Cause Peru is so unique. You have the coast, [1:34:07] And then the Andes just start, you know, they just start going up until you get to, you know, the... [1:34:15] Before you start getting into the Amazon, you've got to cross the whole Andes. [1:34:20] So for several hundred years, they would live...

[1:34:24] further up the valley and then they would come back and repopulate on the coast and build on top of the sites that used to be there. [1:34:31] And then it would happen again, and it would go back. And so there's this whole cycle of – and there's some places where you will find that direct – [1:34:39] Um... [1:34:41] It's very hard to find megalithic stuff, though, like the stuff you're finding in Cusco, for example, on the coast. You don't really find that type of architecture on the coast. Yeah. [1:34:52] You didn't have that building material. You didn't have stones like that. [1:34:57] And [1:34:58] So it's my belief that... [1:35:01] Some of these places... [1:35:03] existed. [1:35:05] further back than we think. Like, this place here on the coast, the erosion and the wind and the water that must have affected it, I can only... [1:35:13] I have footage from... [1:35:15] What we just saw was drone footage from this year. I didn't get much drone footage the year before. [1:35:21] I could already see how much has been covered in one year. [1:35:25] in one year. [1:35:27] having gone there again. And it's just, imagine over... [1:35:31] Millions of years or thousands of years. It's crazy. If you had to just take a wild guess with no one holding you to this at all, how old do you think we're talking about here? This episode is brought to you by Blinds.com. Texas summers don't mess around with patio surfaces easily reaching 150 degrees. Hot enough to make your backyard feel like a punishment. And if your windows are bare, indoor temperatures can go up 20 degrees.

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[1:37:31] system by visiting simplisafe.com slash rogan that's half off at simplisafe.com slash rogan there's no safe like simplisafe i think there's uh [1:37:44] So I go back pre-cataclysm, the young Andreas. There's evidence on like Waka Prieta that there was this mound that was carved out of the bedrock that Tom De La Haye and his team excavated. [1:38:00] Academically accepted dates back to 12,500 BCE. [1:38:04] And so there were people living on the coast at that time. So this mound, what does that look like? [1:38:13] It looks just like a... [1:38:15] This is an interesting site. [1:38:17] That's it. [1:38:19] What am I looking at here? That mound. That mound. [1:38:22] That's not a natural mound? [1:38:25] It started off as natural. And so what they found was... [1:38:29] They would. [1:38:31] use their refuse. [1:38:33] And so they would put trash on top of the mound and then cap it with like Adobe mud so it would become strong. It would become a platform. And then they would build on top of it. So it's a trash mound? [1:38:44] Part of it. How weird. [1:38:47] That wasn't an uncommon thing. And that's more than 15,000 years old. [1:38:53] And what is that? They have writing from there? [1:38:56] No. What's that, cloth? It's hard to see what that is. Cloth, like fishing nets. Oh, I see. It's one of the oldest pieces of cotton. Yeah.

[1:39:05] So you ask how they were carrying things and all that with the cotton. But the cotton was coming from further inland. [1:39:12] It wasn't coming from them. [1:39:14] So even back then, they were... [1:39:18] So here's the kicker. And this is part of like the paper. [1:39:23] Thank you. I'm writing... [1:39:25] There's evidence at that place, Wacca Prieta? [1:39:28] of a sunken circular plasm. [1:39:31] And that predates all the ones we saw by even by 2000 more years. [1:39:36] I think this is where that tradition started. [1:39:39] Wow. I think that's where it started far earlier than anybody. [1:39:44] accepts or knows now here's the weird one like how do those people get there [1:39:49] Dude, you know, I've thought about this. I mean, look, if you... [1:39:52] If you're building these structures 6,000 years ago, 11,000 years ago, 15,000 years ago, when did you get there? When did you get there? [1:40:04] The plaza. [1:40:06] So I mean [1:40:07] I don't think it takes much. I think if you're living on the coast or, I don't know, by any sort of water and you see a piece of wood floating on it, you're like, oh, all right. Well, then a thousand years go by and you have, at that point, put some pieces of wood together to make a flotation device, you're able to navigate. [1:40:25] Like, I just, I don't see it not happening. Eventually. Right. Especially with crazy people. It's... [1:40:32] I mean, someone's got the courage to just sail out there and hope you have enough water on you. Or you're fishing and you get stuck. You get stuck and there's a storm and it's like, whoop. Right. And you could never make it back. You know, but I think that's happened.

[1:40:48] in multiple places. I don't think that civilization is born and created without... [1:40:54] A, that sense of exploration, but also that natural ingenuity. I mean, storms happen, you see a log floating in the ocean. [1:41:03] Well, I can use that to go catch more fish. Yeah. [1:41:07] All of a sudden, you're seafaring. Boy. [1:41:10] So it just when you see stuff like this, that's that old. [1:41:14] That's 15,000 years old. You go, okay, well, this is all that's left. [1:41:18] from 15,000 years ago. What's left from 30,000 years ago? [1:41:21] Because it's like double that, right? Right now, you look at 15, there's almost nothing. It's like, God, it's so little, but you get it. [1:41:29] But if you went another 15 before that, are we talking, what is that? [1:41:34] And that's why I'm like with the stuff Beyond is doing with the SAR tech, I'm just hoping that – [1:41:43] that can be affordable and applied in multiple areas to find things that are buried underground. [1:41:51] One thing that I've always been curious about why there hasn't been more research until I looked into it. [1:41:58] All these places were on the coast of Peru. Well, sea levels were lower at one point. And so... [1:42:03] What's right off the coast of Peru? Right. [1:42:09] Many if any studies on that I'm like why? [1:42:13] Apparently. [1:42:14] The Humboldt current makes it very difficult to – this is what I read because I was like, why hasn't anybody studied this?

[1:42:21] Apparently, the Humboldt Current makes it very difficult to do research out there where it becomes very expensive for the equipment you need and things like that. But I guarantee that you'll find some stuff off the coast. [1:42:34] Yeah, it just makes sense. Yeah. Especially if you find that. I mean, especially we know that sea levels were far lower than... [1:42:40] Thank you. [1:42:41] Especially – [1:42:42] If that really is 15,000 years ago, we definitely know the sea levels were lower then. Yeah, it wasn't like this... [1:42:49] It's crazy too, man, because Tom Dillehe got... [1:42:54] I mean, he got so much shit from the academic community for his research time in Monteverdi and this site. Which is interesting how consistent it is. It's still going on today the same way. [1:43:05] And they're always wrong. Right? It's like you would think you might want to have an open – just leave some room and – The young archaeologists are. I think there's a lot of young archaeologists that have grown up with the internet and they're really paying attention to this stuff and they're realizing – and also when you're young and you grow up with the internet, you realize like gatekeepers of information are a real problem. [1:43:28] And they always have been and they're wrong about so many things. [1:43:31] I mean they're wrong about virtually everything. The official narrative of almost everything has holes in it. [1:43:36] Something you said earlier too [1:43:40] Like, [1:43:41] this age of study and exploration and radio carbon [1:43:45] It's not that old. Right. It's a, we've only been doing this... [1:43:49] type of research for 100 years with some of the new advancements. Like, you don't think something else is going to come along that might knock that out? Right. You don't want to leave room for that? Right.

[1:44:00] It's kind of dickish. It's very dickish. But no need to focus on the dicks. But that's why things like Filippo Biondi's work – [1:44:10] is so devastating to the narrative because this new technology, and if it shows that it's accurate, and it is accurate on things that we know exist. That's where it gets really crazy, especially when they looked 1.2 kilometers through a mountain to find the particle collider underneath and got the exact dimensions and a map of this particle collider. It's wild. Right? So they know that it's accurate. And then – so – [1:44:36] What are those pillars? What are these... [1:44:38] 20-meter... [1:44:40] It's in diameter. What are these things and why would you not want to divest? [1:44:45] all the money you can possibly do to figure that out. I think it will happen. And I think one of the reasons why it's going to happen is because of the Internet, is because the Internet. [1:44:54] Just the pressure and the amount of interest. And also think about Egypt, right? Egypt, a large portion of their economy is wrapped around the tourism. Yeah. Because the tourism in Egypt is phenomenal because it's one of the most incredible sites in the world. Wouldn't you want it to be even more incredible? Like what's more incredible than some unknown mystery of – [1:45:21] spectacular proportion. [1:45:23] Something that goes a kilometer deep under the pyramids and they don't know what it is? Like this is nuts. Also, those shafts that go down that are filled with debris now that they can clear out and it leads to what at least this data shows, tunnels and tunnels.

[1:45:40] and all this shit that's underneath there? What is that? That's, I mean, and I think Ben has done phenomenal work putting that together. Oh, he's incredible. I love that guy. The history and the story and the accounts of being in these labyrinths. And he's another guy that got into this because of the internet. [1:45:57] I mean, he had a real career in tech. He was like, okay, I'm going to throw this out to be a YouTuber. [1:46:08] Yeah. [1:46:10] My goal is to document as much as possible before it's not there to document. [1:46:16] I mean, it's crazy to be on here. My channel, I still feel like it's in its infancy. Well, I only found out about it a while. I mean, I want to say four months ago, five months ago, something like that. I started seeing some of your stuff online, I think on X. Yeah. [1:46:33] And I started looking at it on YouTube and I was like, yo, this guy's going deep. How did you fund all this stuff? I mean, how do you have the money to go and do these things? I went broke the first expedition. This was a total field of dreams. [1:46:51] If you build it, I'll see what happens. [1:47:00] People saw the work I had been doing up until that point. There were some GoFundMe donations, which was amazing. The fact that – I mean just thank anybody out there. Just thank you.

[1:47:11] The people who believe in what I'm doing, like that's what fills me up the most too, like the encouragement and the support from people I don't know. Well, the content you provide though is so fascinating and it's so interesting to people like myself and other people that are really interested in it. It's just a matter of getting you exposure. So the content is so amazing. It's just a matter of people have to find out about it. And then – I mean YouTube is a great – the algorithm on YouTube is so good. [1:47:41] because it will recommend. I'll watch one of your videos and it will recommend something else interesting. And it just keeps going on and on and on. [1:47:51] So I came back from that first expedition. I was there. The first expedition was 23 days. [1:47:56] I had two terabytes of footage. And it's funny, that footage lasted me a year and a half until this expedition now. And I was out on this last expedition for 42 days now. [1:48:06] all over the country. And [1:48:08] I mean, the video you were talking about when we first started talking. [1:48:13] That is too the only – there's no drone footage of that site. [1:48:17] ever there is one Facebook post with pictures. [1:48:22] And that's it. And I was like, I have to document this, you know, and, you know, [1:48:28] So much from the last expedition is like that. It's the only... [1:48:33] The only media that you'll see of it. And the fact that these pyramids carved into the bedrock, that you're the only one that has media, that is just absolutely insane. What are we looking at here? I'm just digging around the area. Oh, yeah. This is a –

[1:48:49] Mummy, Lady Cow, they found in 2006... [1:48:53] They call her – she might have been the first female ruler of the area, the Cleopatra of South America. [1:49:00] These are pictures of her tattoos. Oh, whoa. So actually what's interesting is – [1:49:07] It is being... [1:49:09] There's a lot of evidence to say that [1:49:12] some of these early, early cultures were matriarchal because they're finding a lot of the tombs of [1:49:19] These queens right there on the coast. The sorcerer. Yes. This one pyramid in this area called El Brujo where Juaca Prieta is. Yep. [1:49:30] They found this dope totem. Whoa. [1:49:33] Um... [1:49:34] And so I believe this was the – [1:49:38] I think Moche. [1:49:41] El Brujo, there are... These paintings are on the wall. Wow. Yeah, I have a video on YouTube of those. That's cool, too, because you see paint. So you realize that these things were very colorful. Oh, yeah. Maked prisoners. [1:49:54] And that this is a recreation of what it would have looked like then? Those are prisoners? Yeah. So the actual thing I thought was queer, too. Why are they painting their prisoners? [1:50:03] That's weird. I mean everything was painted though. This was weird. I mean why are they making depictions of their prisoners? [1:50:10] You know what I mean? Not that they painted it different colors, which is kind of cool, but... [1:50:14] It's interesting. Like, how old is this supposed to be? [1:50:17] Anywhere from 3000, this was a very interesting part. 3000 BC is what they say it goes back to, but they say it wasn't developed until modern day, like 200 to 600 AD, which is 3600 years of nothing. So it was, I believe it was the Moche. 1990 this one was found, and a Peruvian banker is the guy. It says it's Philithamperic.

[1:50:38] Phil and ramp philanthropically minded I can say it right and the group the watch arrows are the ones who told him about it and so that's [1:50:48] a lot of these places have been found because of, um, [1:50:53] Walked out was being reported. All of a sudden there's an influx in a little village of silver or something like that. And then somebody tells the authorities, they figure out, uh, [1:51:04] where they're going to dig. I mean, there's a good book on it, The Lord of Sipan. [1:51:11] Archaeologists literally had to stand guard. The townspeople weren't happy that when the archaeologists got involved and the townspeople were coming to get the gold and coming to get the silver. And so there's a whole book about it. I don't know why nobody's made a movie on it. That makes sense though, right? Because it's life changing if they can find… [1:51:31] hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gold and silver, right? [1:51:34] In the ground. [1:51:36] Fuck these archaeologists. Well, and some of the earliest – a lot of the stuff you'll see in the museums like the Larco Herrera Museum and – [1:51:47] Uh, uh, [1:51:48] A lot of the pottery is preserved because you had these big plantation owners, these big technocrats and – [1:51:56] their workers in the field would constantly be finding this artwork and these wakas and [1:52:03] And so they were like, you know what? I'll give you $2 every time you bring me one. And now we have the Larco Herrera Museum full of this stuff.

[1:52:12] So – and there's – I was talking to Dr. Ed Barnhart about this. There's also so much in Peru that the – [1:52:19] the people finding these things, they aren't [1:52:22] Maybe nowadays they're making a lot on stuff, but... [1:52:26] for the past, [1:52:27] couple decades [1:52:29] There was just so much. You're getting $3 for... [1:52:32] If you're a Peruvian worker in the field moving this thing up the ladder, you're getting $3 for a little piece of pottery. [1:52:42] Yes, I... [1:52:45] how long have you been doing this for? [1:52:48] I mean, what I've been with the channel two years. That's it. Two years, yeah. And what were you doing before that? A video editor. And so you just said, you know what? I'm going to just take a leap of faith. My contract, I had a contract position and it ended – [1:53:04] Yeah. [1:53:05] I was posting these things I was finding on Google Earth, and I was saying, like, I think this is something. This is why. I came up with this whole methodology. Yeah. [1:53:13] And [1:53:14] People were like, you're full of shit. And I was like, you know what? [1:53:18] Let's see. And I went and... [1:53:20] 100% accuracy. Every single place I saw on Google Earth that did not have a label. [1:53:27] was an archaeological site. [1:53:29] Every single one I went to. And that first expedition. [1:53:32] I went to 90 in 23 days. 90. That was the first expedition. I was there for 42 days this time. [1:53:40] Wow. So, like, I've got five terabytes worth of video footage of things nobody's seen. That's crazy. Yeah. But just, I mean, imagine again. What if you didn't do this?

[1:53:54] That's what's nuts. [1:53:55] That's what's nuts. Like we would be completely ignorant about this stuff. [1:53:59] Yeah, dear. [1:54:01] It just makes you wonder, like, what was, like, those... [1:54:05] stone pyramids carved into the bedrock, the only UF footage of it. What was that culture? What were they doing? And all I have to go off of is what this – [1:54:14] What made me happy is like... [1:54:16] And I have it on the video. I'm talking to the camera. I'm like, I think this, I think that, I think this card. And that survey verified every little thing that I, which was like pretty cool because I'm not, you know, academically trained to, you know, analyze these things. But I have the... [1:54:32] I have the experience. And so it was kind of neat that every bullet point [1:54:36] was verified by that survey. The feeling I got going to that place [1:54:43] in that place in particular. [1:54:45] I don't think they're going to find pottery there. I don't think they're going to... I think it was pre-ceramic, but I also think... [1:54:51] There weren't houses. There might be, you know, if you go digging or do some LIDAR. [1:54:58] Thank you. [1:54:58] I think it was a place of pilgrimage. That's just my person. I have nothing to back that up. [1:55:02] That's what I felt, though, [1:55:04] kind of [1:55:06] Pilgrimage. You kind of intuit... Like when I was walking there... [1:55:12] Thank you. [1:55:12] I don't know, man. Peru is weird. The energy in Peru is different. And so. [1:55:20] Hmm. [1:55:21] I [1:55:23] I want to say spiritual because I don't have a different word for it. It's just...

[1:55:29] Thank you. [1:55:31] You're just in tune with something. I mean, maybe it's just the nature, but I feel different down there, and especially going in these far out places, and when you get to some of these sites, you feel a little different. [1:55:45] And so just kind of the intuitive impression I got was I wonder if people were coming here as some sort of pilgrimage because they – [1:55:53] I mean, there aren't houses there. There's no evidence of people living there. But is that because of time? It's very possible. That's the problem when you're seeing something that's – [1:56:03] The amount of... [1:56:05] work. [1:56:06] That would take to carve something out of bedrock. Like there was – and how many of those pyramids did you find? There were like 16 of them. 16. Yeah. Okay. They're huge. Huge. They're carved out of the ground, out of rock. Yeah. [1:56:18] With what? [1:56:21] Dude, here's the interesting thing. In that survey, I didn't know this, and I tried to pinpoint the location. [1:56:27] That main pyramid I was on. [1:56:29] There's a black and white photo from 1970. [1:56:33] where they found a carved-out room... [1:56:36] in that pyramid, in that main pyramid, there's a, [1:56:39] And it looks like a room. It's been human carved out. So there's chambers in some of these things. Why aren't we studying it? Right. Why haven't we gone back in? Also, how? Like, what are you using? Right. Like, what kind of tools do you have? And 6,000 years? Like, what tools were available?

[1:57:01] Okay. [1:57:02] It's so close to the ocean, you might not ever know because a tsunami comes in, it's taking it right back out. Right, right. And if it's metal, it's gone anyway. It's gone. It's gone. [1:57:11] Same with, I think, also... [1:57:14] Like I think that little alcove where all the burials were, I think that got preserved because it was behind this mountain. I think if there was any civilization there prior that might have been living there – [1:57:29] All the bones that were there, they're gone. Right. They got taken back out. Of course. Yeah. And probably all the structures, any houses, if they had wooden houses or- On top of the land. Yeah. Gone. Nothing left. And so all you're left is with this strong, who knows if those things were bigger too, you know? Right. Right. Who knows what was on top of those things, right? Right. [1:57:50] Exactly. That's nuts, man. The thing that gave it away on that side in particular is when you look aerially – [1:57:58] Every single one of those pyramid structures is facing northeast. Every single one. And that's for the sunrise on the solstice. Right. And I was like, this is man-made. [1:58:07] This is man-made. And there's still people on the comments who are like, that's – [1:58:11] Oh, that's just a mountain. And I'm like, dude, what more do you want? They think that those things were just – they don't think those things are man-made? Yeah. They're the same shape. Yeah, I know. The same shape, the same size. They're all pointing in the same direction. Shut the fuck up. I've learned not to fight. You're going to believe what you want anyway. You know what I mean?

[1:58:32] It's the history. I mean Graham Hancock has the greatest phrase that we are a species with amnesia. [1:58:40] And I think it's true. And I think it all points back to not just the Younger Dryas impact, but probably several other impacts. You know, my friend John Reeves, he lives in Alaska and he runs the Boneyard. Yeah, yeah. John just sent me some photos of a new site that they have that's under all these other sites, like deep under all these other sites, where they're finding not just bone, but charred bone. [1:59:10] like an entire area of like burnt tusks, burnt bones covered. And he thinks there was another impact. An impact. And, you know, just – I mean, he's just making a rough estimation because some of the sites that he found, it's somewhere around 10,000 years ago due to like, you know, doing the – [1:59:30] examination of the cores and he thinks it's 20,000 years ago. So he thinks this is probably a normal thing that has happened all throughout the history of the earth is the earth gets pelted. [1:59:42] You know, every 10,000, every 20,000, whatever. [1:59:46] We just get hit. That speaks to the... [1:59:50] The myths and the legends and the Dryas and the Yugas. I mean, every civilization has its version of... [1:59:59] This is the fifth epoch or the fourth epoch. The first one was fire. The last one was water. There's always several cataclysms. The yuga stuff is nuts too because it just seems like it's so accurate. And we are in Kali Yuga right now, which is the age of deception. And what's more confusing – that's what it's called, right? Isn't it called the age of deception?

[2:00:23] So – [2:00:25] What's more like if you thought that it was all falling apart before it gets rebuilt? It's like that's now like this place is fucking crazy. It's wild. Every day the news is nuts. [2:00:35] I, I've gone on a social media hiatus over the last few days and I feel so good. And I, I decided two days ago, I'm not going back. I'm like, I'm not going back. I'll go back to post things. I'm never reading it anymore. Yeah. [2:00:48] I'll find my news. [2:00:49] People send me enough stuff as it is. My friends send me things. I don't have to click on them, but I know what's going on, what craziness is happening. You just feel better when you don't do it. [2:00:59] And I've been sucked into the – the Nazca mummies thing sucked me into the back and forth on X. [2:01:08] It's toxic. It's so toxic, man. So toxic. And it's like at the end of the day, people are going... [2:01:14] people... [2:01:16] Look, you can have all the evidence saying this one thing and – [2:01:19] Everybody agrees you're going to have this group that is like, well – [2:01:24] No, for this reason. And it's the same thing on the other side, too. And so it's just this... [2:01:30] Social media is this weird loop of confirmation bias. [2:01:37] And bitchiness and anger and arguments and infighting and attacks. And I just think that it's altering the collective – [2:01:46] psychological foundation of our society. I agree with you. And that's what's weird. And that's what makes sense when you see like crazy protests and crazy people online. It's like everyone's getting – there's something that's happening to them. Well, what's this one thing that exists with everybody? It's social media use. Yep.

[2:02:08] And... [2:02:11] And I think – I don't know. It's hard. I tried to stay away and then I found myself like last week after I made these videos just – [2:02:21] Just for the social media sphere as an example – [2:02:26] Like I was getting pulled into it. I felt myself as somebody who has not engaged that much. I was like, something has shifted, you know? And like, I was ready to... [2:02:35] get defensive and and and take things personally and i'm like this is an attack back and attack back and i was like this is just continuing the cycle and i don't want that i don't want that in my life i don't need any of that [2:02:47] So I just stopped, you know, and but – [2:02:51] The level of defensiveness, the level of attacks, the level of – and it's not even – at some points, it's not even just taking things personally. The attacks are personal sometimes. So it's like what are you supposed to do other than – [2:03:03] not engage in [2:03:04] Yeah, you can't engage. I say post and ghost. That's my strategy. I like it. That's my strategy. And then even then I'm telling people to stay off of it. So they're not even going to read my stuff. Like they're listening to me, but that's okay. It's okay. It's like you find out enough. You find out about the important things and find out about shows that you enjoy and then you subscribe. And then when new episodes come out, you're like, Ooh, yeah. So that's what I've been doing. And it's, it's a much healthier way. [2:03:31] Like the one thing that doesn't – and Jelly Roll was telling me this. Like he got off all sorts. He had no phone for like 18 months, no phone at all. Wow. It was crazy. Like I'd contact him through his guy that was running his social media. Sounds like a healthy choice. Tell Jelly I love him. Tell him what's up. And then recently he got a phone like over the last few months and only uses YouTube. He's like my YouTube, he goes I learn things, I get interested in things.

[2:04:01] I feel too. Like I really enjoy YouTube. [2:04:04] There's so much interesting content on YouTube about everything. I mean it's just like – We're living in – I mean this is – [2:04:12] An incredible age where. [2:04:15] I mean I feel fortunate for what I'm doing that there's an audience for it and there's a platform that can allow that to have some reach because some stuff deserves to reach. Well, what you're doing is very important. It's very important. Just the fact that you are the first guy to get media of those structures – [2:04:35] That's crazy, man. I mean, it's really kind of crazy. You're a video editor. Two years ago, you decided to do this. You're the first guy who's documenting these things, and then we're showing millions of people right now. Kind of nuts. Like how few people know that there was some kind of a complex society that understood the equinoxes, pointing their structure toward it, and not just building them with mud and bricks, but carving it out of the bedrock in a similar shape. [2:05:05] Thank you. [2:05:05] Over and over and over again. And that's just what you found. Like imagine how much hasn't been found. [2:05:12] Dude, you just look at the aerial stuff and – I mean, Joe, I can't – that's just the tip of the iceberg, man. Right. Like of the content that – [2:05:22] I mean, I'm going to places in the middle of the desert and seeing an adobe wall peek out at this one little section. And then I put the drone in the air and you can see the outline.

[2:05:32] of this whole structure... [2:05:35] Just a little bump in the sand. And no one even knows it's there. No one even knows it's there. [2:05:40] What happened to all those people? That's what's nuts. Dude, that's the... That's the... Like... [2:05:45] When I say cradle of civilization, I mean – [2:05:48] This was – I don't know. Whatever is bigger than a cradle. Well, that's what makes sense, right? Because if you think about the Ice Age and if all this stuff is pre-Ice Age or during the Ice Age – [2:05:59] That area is not covered in ice. And it's one of the few areas around the equator that's not fucked up. And it's one of the few areas where people can thrive. So it really makes sense that that would be the area where civilization would not just thrive, but reach very high levels of sophistication where they're able to carve into the bedrock these massive pyramid structures. [2:06:22] I forgot, I was watching, it was on Discovery or Negeo or something, but... [2:06:27] There's evidence in like the Okokahe Desert. I mean they're finding another dark trafficking – illegal trafficking web is like the sale of fossils because they're finding whales in the Okokahe Desert. I was waiting to find a good point for this. They found that they were using whale vertebrae as stools. So they found this giant – Dude, I want those for my bar. Dude, that's awesome. I did not know that. [2:06:57] I'm almost... [2:06:58] The heaviest animal ever. Whoa. I've been in touch with that guy's nephew. Colossal blue whale found outside of Peru.

[2:07:07] Each vertebrae weighs 220 pounds. Yeah, the whole thing with the ones they found, 200 tons. [2:07:15] And so, like, as you were just saying, if they're not buried under tons of ice, then these people could, in theory, have found... [2:07:21] Lots of these giant... Holy shit. In the desert, yeah. Something else I'm stumbling across and didn't get into it. Blue whale poop has apparently got some... [2:07:30] something interesting to it. What's the deal with blue whale poop? That's what I didn't really get into. Jamie, how do you go on these deep dives in the middle of a podcast? Jamie, you're a fucking wizard, dude. You start seeing stuff like that. Whoa. Having a poop. Look at that. Neon green. [2:07:45] I'm just imagining these giant 200-ton poops and then what you could – [2:07:52] I don't know. It's red. Oh, God. What are these people doing with poop? They also think that they could have been eating in a different way. They just... [2:07:58] sweeping up shrimp and shit from the bottom of the ocean. [2:08:02] Right. I'm just like picturing what this looked like, you know. [2:08:05] And the year zero. [2:08:07] where there's a bunch of giant whale bones all over the coast, and who knows what other octopus or whatever the fuck else. What happens to that poop when it fossilizes? But no, they're finding – I mean there is a dark web of trafficking for looking for stuff in the Okukahe Desert where all these – [2:08:25] prehistoric animal bones are. They found dinosaurs and stuff there too. And again, is it just wealthy people that want it for their homes? [2:08:33] Is that what it is? The stuff I've seen, it's – I mean really that guy and a few other people just kind of going out there illegally looking for stuff. But it has to be valuable for them to be willing to do this, right? So who's buying it?

[2:08:47] wealthy oligarchs. Where are these fucking people? I never met one of them that has some stuff like that. [2:08:53] I want to go over to someone's house. Like, hey, you want to see some shit? You got a whole museum right there. [2:08:59] That's probably how you wind up on a list. [2:09:01] But I mean, that's – [2:09:04] There's still... [2:09:06] There's still so much out there. And I mean, if I... Just like some of the structures I was talking about, like you literally see a whole adobe wall. You see a whole temple complex. You see the remnants of a circular plaza. Um... [2:09:20] I mean, there's another... [2:09:23] If you go to the undocumented temple on the spreadsheet... [2:09:27] This is undocumented. No Ministry of Culture sign. It's not on the Ministry of Cultures. [2:09:33] database of archaeological sites. How did you find it? [2:09:36] Using Google Earth. Wow. And so here's the thing. All right. So circling back, we had that Norte Chico culture with the sunken plazas way down here. [2:09:45] We have this... [2:09:47] I was surprised. Go ahead. [2:09:48] So that – well, that's what I saw on Google Earth. No, go ahead. Continue what you just said. So you have the Corral Supe culture down here, and then you have the – [2:09:58] They found that sunken plaza underneath archaeological sites in Chasma, way up here. [2:10:04] So you have these two different [2:10:06] And they're saying they were separate cultures. [2:10:08] I think they were the same. [2:10:10] How far apart of it? [2:10:12] 200 kilometers or miles I forget. [2:10:15] So what I was like, I was like, well, is there a connection between these two? So I looked in the valleys in between.

[2:10:21] And I found this. [2:10:23] with a sunken – a temple with a sunken circular plaza. So you just have them – Found it on Google Earth. Yeah, and then I went and I needed help from one of the guys in the field to – and a lot of the people in these pueblos, like they'll note – [2:10:37] Every now and then you'll get lucky and someone knows the history. Every now and then. More often than not. [2:10:43] It's... [2:10:44] Yeah, there's some ruins right over there. [2:10:46] And that's it. That's the extent of their knowledge. [2:10:50] And so that was one of these occasions where the guy was like, if you just go this way and that way, because I was looking for it. I had to pin on my map, but I was getting lost. So I go and I find this place, and lo and behold… [2:11:02] It's a sunken circular plaza, temple structure. I go up on top. There's pottery there. You can see... [2:11:09] where the Joqueros have dug things out, there's... [2:11:12] walls. [2:11:14] And it's just unexcavated. Nobody surveyed it. There's no documentation of it. It's just there. [2:11:19] Wow. [2:11:22] Can I see it? [2:11:24] This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Summer means fun and making memories, but it can also feel like you're in survivor mode with packed schedules, keeping the kids entertained, and chaotic routines. That's not so fun. You've got to make sure that you're taking care of you, and therapy can help with that. From setting boundaries to making a space to recharge, it can help make your summer more balanced and enjoyable.

[2:11:54] online. You'll be matched based on your needs and can switch any time if it's not the right fit. With millions of clients worldwide, people are finding the support they need with BetterHelp. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find guidance in therapy. Visit betterhelp.com to get started. That's betterhelp.com. This episode is brought to you by Gold Belly. [2:12:24] food foods from all across the country. You got to try the ribs from Terry Black's in Austin, massive juicy beef ribs that take a day to cook and you just... [2:12:33] sink your teeth into them gold belly will ship them to you anywhere [2:12:38] And you've heard me talk about Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles from L.A. Man, now you don't have to sit in L.A. traffic to get some of that chicken. Just order on Gold Belly. So ship, Dad, something awesome from the most iconic restaurants across the USA. Go to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with the promo code ROGAN. That's goldbelly.com, promo code ROGAN. [2:13:02] So that's what I saw. This is what you saw on Google Earth? Yeah. Okay. [2:13:07] And so you're just looking in between these two areas. Oh, and it's also facing north northeast, too. That also told me that it was probably something. [2:13:18] Okay. And then you see this, this, that's right next to it. [2:13:22] Thank you. [2:13:22] And then you went. [2:13:23] And then I went. What, do you rent in a car? How the fuck are you doing this? Yeah. Dude. What happens if you bring these cars back? They're like, where'd you go? Yeah.

[2:13:33] I have some pictures of driving out in the desert, man. [2:13:39] Okay, so this guy's helping you? Yeah. Is this a guy, a local? Yeah, he was just working in the field there. Okay, so these are the fields. [2:13:47] And he tells you where this stuff is so all the locals know where this stuff is. And then pretty soon I start walking up to it. [2:13:55] And this is completely undocumented. And it's you can see the plaza there. It's all rubble. So something happened, some some earthquake or. [2:14:07] So I'm walking up to the top of it. [2:14:09] And then – So right now it just looks like rubble. It doesn't even look like it was a building. Right. From the ground at least. And so many places I'm like standing right in the middle of a site. I don't even know until I put the drone in the air. [2:14:26] I think it's coming up here. You'll see a... [2:14:30] Let's see. [2:14:35] Should come up here shortly. There you go. [2:14:38] Okay. [2:14:39] So, yeah. [2:14:40] Clearly. [2:14:41] Underneath all of that is... [2:14:43] rooms. Right. [2:14:46] So you see the bricks... [2:14:48] A piece of pottery, some of the walk arrows took out. [2:14:52] But that was evidence to me that... So underneath this whole thing... [2:14:57] Our walls and chambers and rooms. [2:15:01] And you just found this on Google Earth. And it's the same style...

[2:15:05] as that Corral Supe culture. [2:15:09] The early one from 3,000 to 4,000 years ago. It's just so hard to believe that this is unexplored. [2:15:18] And not just that, undocumented. And that you just find it on Google. Thank God for – shout out to Google Earth. Yeah. You know? Google Earth deserves some props. I mean, seriously, yeah. Crazy. Crazy. [2:15:30] I mean, who would have ever thought? [2:15:32] People asked if I use advanced satellite stuff, and I've only used Google Earth so far. Look at this. Clearly. [2:15:39] some sort of a civilization was there that just got obliterated. [2:15:44] Thank you. [2:15:45] So this was weird. I don't know. Like, it was just a cactus in the middle of it all. It was very strange. [2:15:53] I don't know. Cactuses are tough. I still don't know what to make of that. They can grow anywhere. That's what's weird about it. But it is weird. There's only one. Yeah, in the middle of it. Yeah. Yeah. [2:16:02] But so there's pottery there and... [2:16:05] I was wondering if it was the San... There was one more cactus, like, directly aligned with it. Other San Pedro cactus down there? Yeah. So these people were probably doing something... [2:16:17] Something with the old psychedelic cactus. [2:16:21] I've got a place to show you. Because San Pedro Cactus is where you get mescaline, right? [2:16:25] Yes. Yeah. [2:16:29] Makes sense that if they have these temples and they have, if there's a pilgrimage, there's probably some sort of a psychedelic ritual involved. Look at this, man.

[2:16:40] What does it feel like to just find something that no one even knew existed like this? [2:16:46] It's got to be a trip. [2:16:48] And. [2:16:50] like... [2:16:52] Thank God I was right. [2:16:55] Spent [redacted address]. Thank God there was something. [2:17:00] But there have been times, too, where I'll get there and it's the satellite Google Earth hasn't. [2:17:05] updated itself and there's a plantation planted over some of it. And it's like... [2:17:11] Do you ask the people, like what used to be here? [2:17:14] If there's people around. [2:17:16] I mean, sometimes... [2:17:19] Like I said, it's you can tell you can kind of tell when it's corporate. [2:17:25] Infrastructure in the area is different, but that's the other thing. There's nobody monitoring this. [2:17:31] I was like, what's the solution? Do you pay somebody to call the Ministry of Culture when somebody's coming in with bulldozers leveling things? And what would they even do? Probably the people with the bulldozers just pay them off. Either pay them off or – dude, at that corral site, Ruth Shady, she was shot by land traffickers, the archaeologist responsible for – [2:17:53] Land traffickers are trying to take over the site and she was shot. [2:17:57] She was killed? She wasn't killed. She was shot. [2:18:01] I mean, she's as recent as a few years ago is like we're still not getting protections from them. They sent us one security guard to patrol the perimeter. These land traffickers, man, like and it's for agriculture.

[2:18:13] It's for agriculture. It's not for looting. Looting is a happy byproduct for them. [2:18:18] It's for the agriculture. [2:18:20] Hmm. Squatters issue death threats to archaeologists who discovered oldest city in America's. [2:18:26] The oldest city in the Americas and you're getting one rent-a-cop. [2:18:30] Wow. [2:18:32] They called the site's lawyers and said that if he continued to protect me, they would kill him along with me and bury us five meters below the ground. [2:18:41] And she's 73. They killed our dog as a warning. [2:18:44] Oh, God. [2:18:46] Thank you. [2:18:47] They actually, when I think it was... [2:18:49] There was – because when they excavate, they do it in seasons and stuff, and there was one season where, like, land traffickers had started building on part of the site and in the off season from digging, so they had to deal with all of that. I mean, it's crazy. It's like the Wild West, man. Wow. Wow. [2:19:06] Any other sites to show us that are particularly compelling? [2:19:10] I mean, dude, there's... I know. We could go on forever, but... If you look at Chavin, C-H-A... It's on the... [2:19:18] just on the media hard drive. So we're talking about underground structures and hallucinogens and stuff like that. This place, Chavin... [2:19:30] Now, this is a known archaeological site. And how old is this place? I think 2,000, right around zero. Look how far down it goes. How deep does it go? This is nuts. Right?

[2:19:44] And this is just one part of it. [2:19:47] Whoa. And this is 2,000 years old, at least. At least. At least. [2:19:53] So they won't let you film in the other section. It kind of looks like this. [2:19:59] Um, [2:19:59] Why won't they let you film there? Because there's something called the Lanzon Monolith. And if you look that up, Jamie, L-A-N-Z-O-N, Monolith. [2:20:11] So... [2:20:14] That's it. [2:20:15] Thank you. [2:20:16] So they won't let you film in there because too many people go in there and take pictures and the Flash supposedly... [2:20:23] So they just – yeah. The flash. Dude, but when I went in there, the security guard was right behind me the whole time. He knew I was going to try to take a picture. Yeah, but you can take a picture with no flash now, especially with like the new iPhones and Samsung phones. You can take some really high-resolution photos. The guard said – [2:20:40] Not enough people know how to turn it off on their phone. Oh, boy. So, but when you walk in. Flash is fucking it up? That seems crazy. That seems like voodoo. [2:20:50] Doesn't it? Yeah. Doesn't it? Does that mean? It could do it to paint and stuff. Come on. There's no paint on that fucking thing. The rock is crazy. How's it? And it's behind a piece of plexiglass, too. That sounds like they're just control freaks. Like, fuck off, dude. Yeah, they'd make a reason for sure just to... [2:21:04] So the whole thing about this place, you saw how deep we went underground. [2:21:09] It's in a comparable place with these hallways. And Joe, I'm completely stone cold sober. That's what it looks like. As soon as I walked in...

[2:21:18] underground. [2:21:20] Something hits you. [2:21:23] the air is different. I, [2:21:26] Dude, I don't know how to describe it. And how'd you feel? [2:21:32] Ah. [2:21:33] lighter and a little messed up in the head, man. Really? Yeah. Do you think it's a lack of oxygen? [2:21:39] And [2:21:39] It's possible. Because it seems like you're deep, deep, deep underground, probably limited oxygen because you get these caverns and holes to the top. [2:21:49] I mean, honestly, I wonder if it's built on some sort of – I don't like the – [2:21:54] like the sacred energy or Delphi with the gases or something like that. I don't know. Getting gassed in there? All I know is that when you go in – [2:22:05] Show me that totem again, that monolith. [2:22:08] What they found is... [2:22:10] They found evidence of rituals happening there, like plates with hallucinogenic plants or substances. So people were going down there to do these rituals and do this space. I mean, if you're going to go on a trip. [2:22:25] That's the place to do it. Right. [2:22:27] It's just you're in the clothes, but the acoustics are so weird. It's trippy, man. What is that image on that thing? It's a jaguar? There's a whole bunch of imagery here. That's like the fanged. So for a while they thought... [2:22:45] They thought this culture, the Chavin culture, was responsible for...

[2:22:49] the onset of religion. [2:22:51] in Peru. They called it the mother culture for decades. [2:22:56] And you see this fanged deity. Dr. Barnhart talks about it a lot. This jaguar-looking deity, um... [2:23:03] They thought it came from there. [2:23:06] But there's actually places that I went to where you see it on the coast for older. So it actually kind of flips that whole. It's not the mother culture. [2:23:15] But their influence and their reach was extreme throughout the – throughout the – [2:23:19] Andean world. So... [2:23:23] They were responsible for... That's when religion took an iconography... [2:23:27] got a major influx right after Chavine culture. They had it before, but not like this. Um... [2:23:34] So that's what's on that statue. [2:23:36] Wow. Yeah. [2:23:38] And it's just so ridiculous. They won't let you take a picture because of the flash. [2:23:43] That's so good. Somebody should talk to them and go, hey, man, shut the fuck up. That flash doesn't do anything. Devotees would be led into the maze of pitch black tunnels, eventually coming face to face with the sculpture. The worshiper's disorientation, in addition to the hallucinogenic effects of the San Pedro cactus they were given before entering, only heightened the visual and psychological impact of the sculpture. [2:24:06] Mmm. [2:24:09] I mean, that's... [2:24:11] God, people are weird. They must have had it lit up with fire or something fucking sweet. Yeah. Dude, it was... [2:24:18] Just going in there stone cold sober and feeling affected, I can only imagine what it was like being on San Pedro. Is that the weirdest place that you've been to in Peru?

[2:24:27] Ah... [2:24:29] Sox of Huaman seems to me to be the most bizarre because just the size of the stones. Oh, yeah. I mean – [2:24:37] Like, how... [2:24:39] How? [2:24:41] Thank you. [2:24:43] I mean, how? I don't know. What are you guys doing? How'd you do this? [2:24:47] How did you figure out to make them interlocking in a way that if there's a seismic impact, they stay put? [2:24:53] How? How'd you get them there? How do they look like marshmallows? I mean... Yeah. Why are they... It looks like they're melted. I've gone on some deep dives. It's funny on that. Yeah, look at that. Fuck, man. [2:25:04] The big ones on the bottom? Like, how? [2:25:08] And it's the style of them, too, which is so different where, as you said, it looks like marshmallows. They're melted into place almost. [2:25:17] Like, look at that one big one in the center. What the hell is that? How big is that? I forget, but they go up to 200 tons, I think. That's got to be bigger than 200 tons. [2:25:27] Don't you think? [2:25:28] Probably. I don't care how small those people are and those people in the foreground. [2:25:33] Get those people right up next to that thing. [2:25:35] They'd be tiny. Well, maybe it is 200. I don't know. But either way, fucking nuts. That one up there. You know how rounded these things are. Yeah. You can't get a piece of paper. The only way they've been dislodged is because of earthquakes. I mean – [2:25:49] Like, it's... [2:25:50] Bro, look at the size of that, and look at the way they interlock. [2:25:54] You can tell when you get up close, there is this reddish residue. Oh, we can...

[2:26:04] There's so much, man. [2:26:07] You can see there's often reddish residue. So they were painted at one point in time? No. I think it was... [2:26:14] Clary? [2:26:17] The indigenous people will tell you that [2:26:20] And actually, Percy Fawcett wrote about it in his journals, too, like this bird that would take a leaf, a red leaf, and peck it into the rock. [2:26:28] after a little bit of time it would create a hole in the rock. It would kind of melt the stone. Actually the guy from the video [2:26:35] L. [2:26:36] that unregistered megalithic site told me the same story. Okay, I know what you're talking about. Right. There's a specific type of plant that has like an acid to it. An acid and... [2:26:49] I've started to – I like Dr. Barnhart's theory, and there's also a paper on it, a peer-reviewed paper by Helmut K. [2:26:57] tributes where he talks about [2:26:59] If you mix pyrite from the offshoot of one of these Incan mines with this... [2:27:06] plantish material you can create like an acid that will [2:27:11] slightly deform the stone. So maybe you would set the stones in place that way? Secrets of softened stone, the lost techniques of the ink from Facebook. So you know it's true. No, no, no. But George Lira was – I did a whole – some of my early videos, man, are like research papers. Like I went on a deep dive with all this. And the Spanish chroniclers talk about –

[2:27:36] seeing gold in between some of the stones. [2:27:41] But this guy also, Helmut Tributes, who wrote the paper, says, what if it wasn't gold? What if it was pyrite fusing the stones, helping to fuse the stones together with this paste? Look what it says there. It says, the technique to carve and shape the stones remains a mystery. According to legends, the gods would have gifted the Incas two magical plants, coke, so coca leaves, which allowed them to withstand pain and physical exhaustion, and another plant that allowed them to soften stones. [2:28:09] softened stones. But you see that red residue. That also makes sense. They did so much work. They're all coked up. [2:28:15] fucking making these dope pyramids when i was a kid this one picture i clicked on but that didn't pop up oh that can't be real no that's uh [2:28:25] I've seen that. [2:28:26] That's an artistic creation. [2:28:30] Thank you. [2:28:31] If you pull up... [2:28:34] That's... [2:28:36] Do you want to stay on Cusco or go to one other place? It's up to you, dog. Whatever you want to do. Let's go to Tunnels, Cusco. [2:28:44] Yeah. Dude. [2:28:45] this whole [2:28:46] this whole part of the Andes. Yeah, it's on... [2:28:50] Thank you. [2:28:51] There's tunnels everywhere, man. [2:28:53] Like, it's not just what they're doing. [2:28:57] So you're climbing down into this tunnel. Now is this a naturally formed hole? Some of it. Some of it? [2:29:04] Okay. [2:29:05] Thank you. [2:29:06] On the way out, you'll see when going in there steps.

[2:29:10] Those were actual steps that were built. But these things, dude, you can't get to the end of it. [2:29:16] You can't find people. There are stories where kids get lost in these things and never found. Oh, fuck. [2:29:22] So, again, these look like natural caves. Right. Some of them have been carved out, though. [2:29:28] So it's a combination. It's a combination. So probably there was some natural caves and then they started carving things up. The whole thing about it was – This gets weird. [2:29:38] So this is the steps? Yeah, coming up on the right. [2:29:43] Yeah. [2:29:44] I mean, it just keeps going on. [2:29:46] Oh, I'm not going in there. There's the steps. Jamie, can you imagine you and me outside the door going, uh-uh. You go first. I'll follow you. That's how my Quechua guide was, man. He was just filming me. Fuck you, bro. I'm not going in there. I was like, I'll go in. There's probably demons in there. That's like that movie. What was that movie? The Descent? The Descent, dude. That movie's great. Dude, I love that movie. That movie's great. I watched it a while ago. It was like 2005? That's wild. That's an old movie, yeah. They did a Descent, too. It's not as good. Yeah. [2:30:16] Thank you. [2:30:17] This is apparently the – It's not the best, but Descent 1 was awesome. Yeah, one of the best horror flicks I've ever seen. [2:30:25] And there's another one, huh? Oh, fuck that hole. Did you go in there? Please tell me you don't go in there. Of course I did, Joe. Of course I did. Well, with your Pillars of the Past shirt on. Oh, my God, dude. I don't even think I would fit in that hole. I got a little scared because coming out wasn't easy. I was just reading about this guy who died in one of those holes. A guy was a cave crawler, and he got stuck trying to get out. He got in head first and then could not get out.

[2:30:55] And was just stuck. Died there. Dude. [2:30:57] Like that? Like that? Couldn't even scream because his chest was compressed. Oh, God. [2:31:03] Yeah, I mean, there's some stuff I've done I'm not going to do. And then he's at an angle like this. [2:31:07] You know, and just couldn't – there's no way to get back out. That's terrifying. Ooh. That's terrifying. You know how that never happens? You don't go in there. You don't go in there. You never dive in a cave. You never dive in a cave. I'll take that into consideration, man. [2:31:22] All right. Before we wrap this up, anything else you want to show us? All right. One more site. Okay. All right. [2:31:27] Chisneri, the C-H-I-S... [2:31:32] Which one? There's four videos. Let's just do the drone footage and then inside tombs. [2:31:39] So this place, it... [2:31:41] I had no idea places like this. [2:31:43] It's just me and my guide. He's – dude, the people I met on this, it's just by happenstance. He's the president of the community there, the little compassino and – [2:31:54] took 12 hours out of his day to walk me through this place. That's cool. [2:31:59] That's another build it and they will come thing, right? It really is. You just go out there and you'll find the right people. Or they kill your dog. [2:32:09] Yeah. Okay. So this, like, I have... Oh, the paint's still on it. [2:32:16] It's actually not paint. It's mud. It's different colored mud. That's what he said. So... [2:32:23] Now we're going to go now in that next video.

[2:32:27] We're going to walk up [2:32:28] to them. [2:32:34] whoa skulls the sky people [2:32:38] Do you know? No, the Chachapoyas were much further north. [2:32:44] You see that skull? You see that skull, right? This is in the Cusco region. [2:32:50] Wow. What the fuck, dude? Yeah, man. Why are all these dead people in that hole? Whoa! [2:32:58] What's going on in there? These were where they would bury their deceased. They'd just chuck them in a hole? No, they weren't like that. They were... So this is all just... This is looting. This is all looting. That rope... Fucking skulls are everywhere. This is crazy. It's wild, man. It's like a horror movie. [2:33:17] This is like the beginning of a horror movie before it gets dark out. Right? The guys, these archaeologists, it's probably you. You're out there. In the movie, you bring a girl with you. You have to leave this place before the sun goes down. A hundred thousand percent. [2:33:32] Bro, you're going to hear voices. You're going to hear dead languages. No camping in the valley. You have to be a gangster to fucking take a nap in there. [2:33:43] Ghost hunters should definitely go there. Oh, yeah. [2:33:47] down there. [2:33:48] I bet they won't do it. [2:33:50] That's real ghosts. This is all from looting. [2:33:53] Wow. So they just dug these people up, stole whatever. Yeah, that's a spine.

[2:33:58] Yeah. [2:33:59] Fuck, man. [2:34:01] God, there's so many bones. [2:34:04] That's nuts. It's crazy, man. That's nuts. [2:34:09] Well, Raul, I'm happy. I'm so happy that you made that decision a couple years ago to just follow this passion. And the content that you put out is really incredible. And the fact that you've been able to find these sites that are amazing, [2:34:22] heretofore undocumented it's it's really amazing man it's it's amazing i'm happy you're doing it and uh i really enjoyed having you on and uh for everybody who wants to watch it's pillars of the past it's on youtube um do you put videos up on x as well i do i've started putting videos up on x and um you know my website's going to be up and running soon it's going to be a [2:34:45] place if you you know if you find places and want to put it on a map and you know if jamie wants to comment on it then he can comment on the pin you put i'm trying to build something because people send me stuff all the time right you have some sort of a thriving community of people that are interested in the same thing absolutely well there's a [2:35:02] There's an interest for this stuff now. I really credit Graham Hancock, I think, because he was the real pioneer of this when people just thought he was a loon. I remember people would make fun of me for reading his book in the late 90s. They'd make fun of me. [2:35:16] Like, where do you read this bullshit from? Why don't you go to a real history class? It's a... [2:35:20] That's not fun. No. This is fun. This is fun. It's fun to think that we don't know what happened but that something happened. And Graham puts in the work. He does. I mean just look at the citation section. He puts in the work. Of course. Yeah, he's an amazing human.

[2:35:36] which is why they have to lie to discredit them. [2:35:40] When he put that material out and then I think the Netflix show really started opening up the gates to people exploring this stuff more and just being fascinated by it and then seeking out content like yours. [2:35:55] We're really fortunate now. There's quite a few really good shows that are on YouTube that document this kind of stuff. And it's – [2:36:04] These are real mysteries. [2:36:06] There's real mysteries when it comes to human history. [2:36:10] And to me, it's one of the most fascinating things. [2:36:14] I love it. So thank you so much for doing what you do. And, uh, [2:36:19] Get out there again and let's come back and do another one of these. I would be happy to. And just a few plugs. Yeah, yeah, please. [2:36:28] I'll be speaking at a – because of all this, which is just amazing. I still feel like everything is in its infancy, so I'm humbled by the opportunities that keep presenting themselves. But like the Quest for Ancient Civilizations conference in Sedona, and then it's actually going to be here. Of course it's in Sedona. It's going to be here in Austin, too. Of course it's here, too. Two kooky places. [2:36:49] ACL Live, I think, is that. Oh, nice. Yeah. Okay. It's an amazing venue. That's going to be in October. And then I'm doing a tour with Mike Collins from Wandering Wolf in the Yucatan and with Hugh Newman. We're doing a northern program. Let me ask you about that. What do you think about that sage wall? Because he's the guy that goes over the sage wall. You think it's a natural formation? I think it's more likely – more likely –

[2:37:11] The way I operate is... [2:37:13] Thank you. [2:37:15] I tend to remain skeptical about [2:37:17] I would like multiple pieces of... [2:37:21] There's also similar things nearby that aren't as spectacular that are natural, right? I believe so, yes. Yeah, there's something about the geology of the area. And I found places like that in Peru as well. I mean, I'm waiting for – they've done LIDAR studies of that stuff. For me, just to have one wall, I need – I personally need more than just that. [2:37:48] And I mean, I found some of the stuff like that in Peru, and I'm very hesitant to say this is megalithic architecture. [2:37:55] There's also more study for people that are interested in just to let you know, there's a lot of AI images online. And when you go to look for the sage wall, sometimes you're confronted with ones like, oh, my God, that for sure is manmade. But then it's not a real image. Someone's created an image or doctored the image to make it look a little bit more manmade. [2:38:14] I will say, Mike Collins has done a ton of work on it. So if you want to see the original footage, it's on his channel. Very, very interesting footage. I mean, I go back and forth. [2:38:24] Yeah, I mean that's... Depending on how old it is. So that's the thing. Like, if you're talking about something that's 30,000 years old, maybe that's all that's left. I forget. He was saying... [2:38:33] They found that it goes a lot deeper than it. Right. Something like that. So it's like for me – Which makes it more interesting. Which makes it more interesting. And I'm like – I just – [2:38:41] Like, keep driving. Like, let's see. Keep figuring it out. There's one in Texas, too, that I haven't found a good answer for. Yeah. I've heard of that. Yeah. 200 to 400,000-year-old wall? Come on. I think a guy in 1925 claimed that and probably just got people to pay attention and come visit, but...

[2:38:57] I don't have a good answer that I've come across on what it is. [2:39:02] Or how old it is. Go to that one below, to the right of your cursor. Right here. To the right of it. [2:39:07] Right there. Yeah. Look at that. [2:39:09] Thank you. [2:39:09] Huh. I will say, though... That could be natural formation. I mean, there are... [2:39:15] The earth does a lot of weird things. That's not convincing to me. [2:39:20] No, can I put it back up again now? But I'm aware of it. [2:39:24] I'm just like, I'm looking at that extraterrestrial. Shut the fuck up. Extraterrestrials do a way better job. [2:39:31] They might have built the pyramids. They didn't build this. Fuck out of here. It was shitty fucking scab labor. Yeah, got non-union guys. Came in. I'll do the job for cheap. They got their laser beams. Yeah. Oh, wait a minute. That looks real. I think that's the guy found when they found it. Oh, that looks like a wall. But there's also four versions of this picture and one's in color. [2:39:54] It's so hard nowadays to, like, you've got to put in some work to find the truth. Yeah. That is weird. [2:40:03] But that doesn't look real. [2:40:05] That looks like it's just the Strada. But it's not consistent all the way to – what the fuck do I know? I don't even know what we're looking at. Who knows? That's here in Texas, right? Yes. Yeah. Maybe we'll go one day. [2:40:18] Pillars of the Past, YouTube, awesome. Thank you. Really appreciate you. It was a lot of fun today. I really enjoyed it. Appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody.

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